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<H4 ALIGN="center">
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"Linux Gazette...<I>making Linux just a little more fun!</I>"
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<P> <HR> <P>
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<H1><font color="maroon">Interview with Ben Collins, the new Debian Project Leader</font></H1>
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<H4>By <a href="mailto:frc@linux.com.br">Fernando Ribeiro Corrêa & Marcos Martins Manhães</a><BR>
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Originally published at <A HREF="http://www.olinux.com.br/Interviews">OLinux</A></H4>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: First of all, tell us about your background.</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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I am generally speaking a programmer and systems
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administrator. In the past I have also worked as a Desktop
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Publisher and a web designer. I've worked for NASA LaRC,
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several ISPs and currently am working at
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<A HREF="http://www.winstar.com">Winstar</A>
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.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: Please give a brief summary of
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<A HREF="http://www.debian.org">Debian</A>'s History, Philosophy
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and Organization on handling free software development?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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Our philosophy goes back a long way. Mainly we believe that
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it <EM>is</EM> possible to create a completely free operating system
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with all of the things you need to do your daily work. That's
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what started Debian, and prompted Ian Murdock to write the
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Debian Manifesto. From there began our project, and from it
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has come the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG), which
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defines the type of software licensing we consider to be Free
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in the sense of Freedom. Also came the Debian Social
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Contract, which defines what we will support for our users.
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Later, as we grew, came our Constitution, which defines our
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operating procedures, and breakdown of authority within the
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project.</p>
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<p>We've basically given full control of each package to the
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maintainer of that package, so long as it falls within the
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guidelines of our well defined Policy. Our Policy is one of
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the strengths of the Debian distribution. Without it, we
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would not have a cohesive set of packages, and
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installs/upgrades would be a nightmare.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: How excited you are about being in front of the
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Debian Project? Do you have something in mind for the
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Debian Project? Are you going to make changes on the way
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the work is done?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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I'm extremely excited. This is my third run at the DPL
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position, and it is a goal I have finally achieved thanks
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completely to those in the project that have faith in my
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ability to handle the job. I have plans to clean up some
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loose ends that have been plaguing our internal organisation
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for some time. After this, I plan to tackle some of the more
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difficult situations that still linger, or are threatening to
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be a problem in the near future.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: What are going to be the differences between your
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leadership and the predecessor's?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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When I first came to Debian, Ian Jackson was finishing his
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term as DPL, and he was very inactive (to his defense, I do
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not know any details of his situation). Wichert then followed
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for two terms. I believe he did an excellent job keeping
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Debian going. However, my plans are to get Debian moving
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rather than continue to limp along with some of the problems
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we face.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: How are people organized and what are the tools
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used to control the results of the work being done in
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different projects and parts of the world?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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Within Debian, we have the maintainers (some 800 it seems
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now). Each of them is responsible for maintaining one or more
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packages (some do not maintain packages, but help with other
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projects internally, such as ftp archive, www site, etc.).
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They have complete control of their tasks within the
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guidelines and policy. Within this, some developers have
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grouped together to manage large specific tasks. Examples of
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this are the Debian Junior project, as well as the ports (such
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as sparc, arm, alapha, powerpc, etc.) and language
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projects.</p>
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<p>All work is coordinated via mailing lists. Some people
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also use IRC as a way of immediate interaction (via
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irc.openprojects.net). We also have the Debian Bug Tracking
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System to manage bug reports for all of our packages and
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systems. This system is available publicly via our web
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pages. Anyone can file a bug, and track it's progress
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directly with the maintainer.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: How many people are working for Debian nowadays?
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Are you satisfied with the results?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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Last I checked, about 800. I am satisfied with the results.
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What I am not satisfied with is the influx of maintainers
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without a better scheme to manage them. Work is being done,
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but I want to see some other things in this area discussed
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and looked at.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: What do you think about people saying that the
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Debian 2.2 has too much bugs? What are you going to do in
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"Woody" to change this point of view?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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I was not aware that people said that. We have an excellent
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security team that fixes all known security related bugs. We
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also make regular point releases (2.2r3 is being worked on as
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I write this) to update the security patches into a new
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release. For woody we have a new "testing" mechanism which
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should help reduce the amount of time needed to release.
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Hopefully this will make more frequent releases possible.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: What are your expectations about the "Woody"
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launch?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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I look forward to a lot of the things that are going to be
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available in woody. Woody also promises to be the most
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architectures we have ever released at one time (by any
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distribution, that I am aware of).</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: What are the active projects at Debian? How are
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they divided and coordinated in terms of content and staff
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for each project?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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Usually a project within Debian creates itself to fill a
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need. The project manages itself, and delegates within its
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own ranks who is responsible for what tasks. I'm not aware
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of all such projects, simply because most of them work in the
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background, silently making Debian better.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: Here, in Brazil, there is a project called
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<a href="http://debian-br.sourceforge.net">
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Debian BR</a>
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. This is a project that is translating the Debian content
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to Portuguese. Do you know that? If yes, what do you think
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about it? If not, you are invited to visit the Debian BR
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web site at debian-br.sourceforge.net. Do you know other
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projects like this in other countries?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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I had not heard of it before. I think it is an excellent
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thing, much like the JP and similar projects. The more people
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we can get Debian to, the better. I'll have a look at the
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web site, and I wish the best of luck to the project for it's
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efforts.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: Do you consider Debian the leading GNU/Linux
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distribution in the world?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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On many basis, yes. However, I measure Debian on what's
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important to me, and am well aware that it lacks in areas
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that are important to others. A recurring topic is our
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installer. I'm happy to report that a new modular installer
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is being worked on, and it so far appears to exceed, or will
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exceed, all of the goals that the group set for itself. It
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will probably not be done in time for woody, though.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: How is Debian's relationship with the GNOME
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Foundation? And with the KDE league?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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I'm not able to answer this question. I do know that we have
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some developers that work closely with both projects, and
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that GNOME and KDE are both fully integrated within our
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distribution.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: What are the advantages and what differentiates
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Debian from
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other popular distributions as SuSE or Red Hat, besides being a
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non-commercial distribution?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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I think we have three major strengths. One is our development
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model. No other distribution has all of its developers
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available first hand to take bug reports and suggestions from
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its user base.</p>
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<p>No other distribution has as extensive a set of policies
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that allows it to distribute as many packages as we do, all
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integrated into our distribution, with easy installation.</p>
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<p>No other distribution offers the ease of upgrades that we
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do. There have been reports of people being able to
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effortlessly upgrade from as far back as Debian 1.3 (bo) to
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the current stable 2.2 (potato) (note, this is a libc5 to
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libc6 upgrade path). Debian not only supports, but guarantees
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upgradability. It is one of our primary goals.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: How do you describe Debian Project achievements
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and what are the prospects and goals for the next
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years?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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The fact that Debian is still around, and is still growing is
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a major achievement. We have not lost site of our primary
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goals; to produce a free and stable distribution. Over the
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next few years I hope to see Debian prosper from commercial
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acceptance via companies like Progeny. I'm hoping that
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vendors will see us as a more viable solution for desktops
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and pre-installed systems.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: Give us some predictions about the growth of the
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GNU/Linux operating system for the next 2, 5 and 10
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years.</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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That's hard to predict. Unfortunately, as free as it may be,
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GNU/Linux is directly affected by the economy. The current
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trend of Internet companies starting to fail, will likely
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scare away of a lot of the venture capital that has flooded
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Linux in the past years. Hopefully this will be a good thing,
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and the Linux companies will have to start working to make
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their money, and not ride the wave of hype. I would guess
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that over the next 2 years, Linux's hype will settle down,
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and people will start taking it more seriously (not just
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those in-the-know).</p>
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<p>In 5 years, I suspect that GNU/Linux will be as common as
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MacOS, Solaris and Windows in the home. In 10 years, who
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knows. That's like an eternity to the technical world, so
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Linux may be obsolete by then.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: What are the improvements that GNU/Linux needs
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to be more deployed in by the corporate market?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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An accepted, easy to use interface. KDE and GNOME are working
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toward this with great strides. But even with a good
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interface, getting accepted and being "common" take far
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longer than a development cycle.</p>
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<p>
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<b>OLinux: Debian is definitely the best Linux distro, but
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its hardware configuration interface and its installer are
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not so friendly. Is the Debian Project going to focus on a
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best interaction with the final user or it still a
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distribution for the systems administrators only?</b>
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</p>
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<p>
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<b>Ben Collins:</b>
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Yes, the debian-installer group is working very hard on this.
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We do not want to remain a niche distribution only used by
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administrators and hard-core hackers.</p>
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<!-- *** BEGIN bio *** -->
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<SPACER TYPE="vertical" SIZE="30">
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<P>
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<H4><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/note.gif">Fernando Ribeiro Corr&eci;a</H4>
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I am a computer analyst just about to finish my
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graduation at Federal University of Rio de Janeiro. Now, I have built
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with my staff the best
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<A HREF="http://www.olinux.com.br">Linux portal</A> in Brazil and have further
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plans to improve services and content for our Internet users.
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<SPACER TYPE="vertical" SIZE="30">
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<P>
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<H4><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/note.gif">Marcos Martins Manhães</H4>
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I'm a journalist graduated from UFRJ (Federal
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University of Rio de Janeiro). I'm 25 years old and have been working at
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OLinux for one year. I began studying mecanical engeneering, but I gave
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up during the second year. I've spent one year in Rockville (went to
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Montgomery College), Maryland, and traveled a lot around the USA (that
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was a great time).
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<!-- *** END bio *** -->
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<!-- *** BEGIN copyright *** -->
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<P> <hr> <!-- P -->
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<H5 ALIGN=center>
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Copyright © 2001, Fernando Ribeiro Corrêa & Marcos Martins Manhães.<BR>
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Copying license <A HREF="../copying.html">http://www.linuxgazette.com/copying.html</A><BR>
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Published in Issue 66 of <i>Linux Gazette</i>, May 2001</H5>
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<!-- *** END copyright *** -->
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