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<h1>correction on command name (Re: Unidentified subject!)</h1>
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<ul>
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<li><em>To</em>: LDP Discussion Group <<A HREF="mailto:ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org">ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org</A>></li>
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<li><em>Subject</em>: correction on command name (Re: Unidentified subject!)</li>
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<li><em>From</em>: Taketoshi Sano <<A HREF="mailto:kgh12351@nifty.ne.jp">kgh12351@nifty.ne.jp</A>></li>
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<li><em>Date</em>: 26 Jun 2000 11:48:48 +0900</li>
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<li><em>In-reply-to</em>: <<a href="msg03018.html">Pine.LNX.4.21.0006252138590.1087-100000@startext.demon.co.uk</a>>(Martin WHEELER's message of "Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:11:06 +0000 (GMT)")</li>
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<li><em>References</em>: <<a href="msg03015.html">20000625203532.19529.qmail@web4903.mail.yahoo.com</a>> <<a href="msg03018.html">Pine.LNX.4.21.0006252138590.1087-100000@startext.demon.co.uk</a>></li>
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<li><em>Resent-date</em>: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:59:32 -0400 (EDT)</li>
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<pre>
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Hi.
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In article <<a href="msg03018.html">Pine.LNX.4.21.0006252138590.1087-100000@startext.demon.co.uk</a>>,
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at Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:11:06 +0000 (GMT),
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Martin WHEELER <mwheeler@startext.co.uk> writes:
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> At the risk of starting a flame-war, I would (personally) advise you to
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> rigorously eschew *anything* beginning "sgml2..."
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> (This is because sgml is a generic term, but is currently being used by
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> some in the LDP world to variously refer to specific instances
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> of SGML markup, such as debiandoc, linuxdoc, qwertzy -- I've lost track.
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> BEST AVOID IT.)
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I don't wish to start a flame, but I wish to point out several facts.
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One)
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The tool for qwertz DTD written by Thomas F. Gordon is included in
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sgml2latex-format.1.4.tar.gz which I got from <A HREF="ftp://ftp.gmd.de/GMD/sgml">ftp://ftp.gmd.de/GMD/sgml</A>,
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and the command name to process the qwertz dtd sgml source in it, is
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just "format". It is a small shell script and it uses sgmls, sgmlsasp,
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and expand. (and the name of the DTD is "qwertz", not "qwertzy".)
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In README file from sgml2latex-format 1.4, you can read:
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| This is the qwertz Format README File. Format is an SGML to LaTeX
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| translator. It consists of
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| 1) SGML document type definitions (DTDs) for the LaTeX document styles
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| (articles, books, reports, letters, slides), for BibTeX bibliographies
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| and for Unix manual pages. (The main DTD is called "qwertz", which is
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| also the name of our AI planning project for which the system was
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| developed.)
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| 2) Programs for translating SGML documents of the these types into
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| LaTeX and groff.
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| 3) A command for extracting source code from documentation, which is
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| useful for a simple kind of "literate programming".
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| Format allows LaTeX documents to be created using powerful and
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| comfortable SGML editors, such as Author/Editor, in a quasi WYSIWYG
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| manner. It also provides a layer of abstraction from LaTeX, allowing
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| documents to be more easily translated into formats for other document
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| processing systems, such as nroff/troff or MS-WORD.
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The linuxdoc-sgml package also used the same command name "format",
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in its early stage. The names for commands such as "sgml2..." was
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introduced at version 1.4 of linuxdoc-sgml (17 October 1995).
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Two)
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Yes the documentation for Debian currently uses debiandoc DTD,
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but the command name to process them is started from "debiandoc2"
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(There are 9 such commands now). There are no command names starting
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from "sgml2" in the debiandoc-sgml package.
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Three)
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SGMLtools-Lite has the command to process the DocBook DTD sgml source,
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and its name is "sgmltools". Do you have complaints against that name ?
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(sgmltools can be used to convert the SGML source from the LinuxDoc DTD
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into the DocBook DTD, so it is not the specific to ONE DTD precisely.)
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Four)
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XFree86 has used their own linuxdoc-based DTD which is called as xfree86.dtd.
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Their processing tools originates in the tools for the FreeBSD Documentation
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Project, and the name of the command is "sgmlfmt" as well as the original one.
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The FreeBSD community had created and used their own linuxdoc-based dtd.
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Their names are freebsd-1.0.dtd and freebsd-1.1.dtd. They are included in
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the source archive of doctools which can be downloaded from the ftp site of
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the XFree86.
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I think that The FreeBSD Documentation Project has started the
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migration to DocBook DTD. You can read their status in their own
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word from: <<A HREF="http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/sgml.html">http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/sgml.html</A>>
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The doc team in the XFree86 project recently started the migration to
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DocBook, too. Dave Pawson aggressively send the converted XML source
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file with the current XFree86 DTD source file. He also has sent a
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stylesheet "lind2docbook.xsl" before doing the conversion. I haven't
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checked the contents, but it seems to be able to transform the SGML
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source written in the XFree86 DTD into the DocBook Version 4 XML.
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Five)
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The LinuxDoc DTD is just created (or "hacked up", as written in its User's
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Guide) for "use particularly by the Linux HOWTOs" (again, as written in its
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User's Guide). And the User's Guide of Linuxdoc-SGML said:
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1.2. Why SGML?
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I chose SGML for this system because SGML is made specifically for
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translation to other formats. SGML, which stands for Standard
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Generalized Markup Language, allows you to specify the structure of a
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document---that is, what kinds of things make up the document. You
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specify the structure of a document with a DTD (Document Type
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Definition). Linuxdoc-SGML is one DTD that specifies the structure for
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Linux HOWTOs and other documents. QWERTZ is another DTD; the SGML
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standard provides DTD's for books, articles, and other generic
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document types.
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The DTD specifies the names of ``elements'' within the document. An
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element is just a bit of structure---like a section, a subsection, a
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paragraph, or even something smaller like emphasized text. Unlike
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LaTeX, however, these elements are not in any way intrinsic to SGML
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itself. The Linuxdoc-SGML DTD happens to define elements that look a
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lot like their LaTeX counterparts---you have sections, subsections,
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verbatim ``environments'', and so forth. However, using SGML you can
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define any kind of structure for the document that you like. In a way,
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SGML is like low-level TeX, while the Linuxdoc-SGML DTD is like LaTeX.
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Don't be confused by this analogy. SGML is not a text-formatting
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system. There is no ``SGML formatter'' per se. SGML source is only
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converted to other formats for processing. Furthermore, SGML itself is
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used only to specify the document structure. There are no text-
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formatting facilities or ``macros'' intrinsic to SGML itself. All of
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those things are defined within the DTD. You can't use SGML without a
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DTD---a DTD defines what SGML does.
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It clearly stated that the DTD is not the SGML itself, at lease I think
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so.
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> Look for something called "db2html"; or "docbook2html".
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> (i..e. *specific*, not generic)
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These names are used in docbook-tools by cygnus. An introduction to use
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the DocBook DTD and this docbook-tools are distributed from:
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<<A HREF="http://nis-www.lanl.gov/~rosalia/mydocs/docbook-intro/docbook-intro.html">http://nis-www.lanl.gov/~rosalia/mydocs/docbook-intro/docbook-intro.html</A>>
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> > If a documented method can
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> > be established for all writers to have enough "ease of
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> > use" with Docbook I would be willing to work with
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> > various individuals and organizations such as the LDP
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> > and OASIS to try to make it a standard for the
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> > industry as much as is practical.
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>
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> Difficult. But go ahead, certainly. Various industries, large
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> publishers, medical organisations, the military, etc. have long had
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> their own DTDs specifically written for them, to cover their own
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> specific tech-doc requirements, and are unlikely to change.
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> Competent tech-doc writers just learn a new DTD, rather than try to
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> persuade all employers to dance to the same tune.
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BTW, Marc Andre Selig wrote on sgmltools-lite-discuss:
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"I have taken a snapshot of the current CVS tree for sgmltools-lite,
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tweaked it to fit into a Red Hat 6.2 standard installation and created
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an RPM package.
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I have also created a package containing EPS versions of the icons
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included with Norman Walsh's DocBook stylesheets. You will need these
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to produce PS documents using sgmltools-lite.
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Together, these two packages should make installation of sgmltools-lite
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extremely easy for users of Red Hat and compatible distributions. Get the
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packages, install them using rpm -i, and everything should be ready.
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All files are available from <A HREF="http://www.sedacon.com/download/:">http://www.sedacon.com/download/:</A>
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<A HREF="http://www.sedacon.com/download/sgmltools-lite-3.0.1.cvs20000625-1.i386.rpm">http://www.sedacon.com/download/sgmltools-lite-3.0.1.cvs20000625-1.i386.rpm</A>
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<A HREF="http://www.sedacon.com/download/nw-eps-icons.0.0.1-1.noarch.rpm">http://www.sedacon.com/download/nw-eps-icons.0.0.1-1.noarch.rpm</A>
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These are the md5sums to verify package integrity:
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d3366cf0ececff6ce9622389383b965a nw-eps-icons-0.0.1-1.noarch.rpm
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0ea9fa970bf77daac91c4b3e7bcb9eed sgmltools-lite-3.0.1.cvs20000625-1.i386.rpm"
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If you use a RedHat 6.2 or some compatible system, then you can try them.
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Debian provides also the packages for sgmltools-2 and cygnus-stylesheets
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with other required packages for the coming next release, aka potato.
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Regards.
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--
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Taketoshi Sano: <sano@debian.org>,<sano@debian.or.jp>,<kgh12351@nifty.ne.jp>
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</pre>
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<ul><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
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<ul>
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<li><strong><a name="03040" href="msg03040.html">Re: correction on command name</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Martin WHEELER <mwheeler@startext.co.uk></li></ul></li>
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</ul></li></ul>
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<ul><li><strong>References</strong>:
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<ul>
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<li><strong><a name="03015" href="msg03015.html">Unidentified subject!</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Mark Allen <tctdp@yahoo.com></li></ul></li>
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<li><strong><a name="03018" href="msg03018.html">Re: Unidentified subject!</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Martin WHEELER <mwheeler@startext.co.uk></li></ul></li>
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