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<h1>Re: experimental release of linuxdoc-tools (based on sgml-tools1.0.9)</h1>
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<li><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:cg@cdegroot.com">cg@cdegroot.com</A></li>
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<li><em>Subject</em>: Re: experimental release of linuxdoc-tools (based on sgml-tools1.0.9)</li>
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<li><em>From</em>: Taketoshi Sano <<A HREF="mailto:kgh12351@nifty.ne.jp">kgh12351@nifty.ne.jp</A>></li>
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<li><em>Date</em>: Thu, 18 May 2000 14:36:53 +0900</li>
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<li><em>Cc</em>: <A HREF="mailto:adam@onshore.com">adam@onshore.com</A>, <A HREF="mailto:ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org">ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org</A>, <A HREF="mailto:sgml-tools@via.ecp.fr">sgml-tools@via.ecp.fr</A>, <A HREF="mailto:gferg@hoop.timonium.sgi.com">gferg@hoop.timonium.sgi.com</A>, <A HREF="mailto:dave@lafn.org">dave@lafn.org</A>, <A HREF="mailto:guylhemlistes@free.fr">guylhemlistes@free.fr</A>, <A HREF="mailto:debian-sgml@lists.debian.org">debian-sgml@lists.debian.org</A>, <A HREF="mailto:JF@linux.or.jp">JF@linux.or.jp</A>, <A HREF="mailto:sano@debian.org">sano@debian.org</A></li>
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<li><em>In-reply-to</em>: <<a href="msg02457.html">200005171858.UAA01329@alpha.cdg.acriter.nl</a>></li>
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<li><em>References</em>: <<a href="msg02452.html">oapuqlp82x.fsf@arroz.fake</a>><<a href="msg02457.html">200005171858.UAA01329@alpha.cdg.acriter.nl</a>></li>
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<pre>
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Thanks Cees, Adam, and all, for your advices.
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In <<a href="msg02457.html">200005171858.UAA01329@alpha.cdg.acriter.nl</a>>,
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at "Wed, 17 May 2000 20:58:26 +0200",
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cg@cdegroot.com (Cees de Groot) writes:
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> adam@onshore.com said:
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> > > But if you, Adam, or Cees, advise me to use the name of
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> > > "SGML-Tools-V1", then I will follow you.
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> > > Please let me know how I should do.
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> > I don't know what Cees thinks but I'm fine with the rename.
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>
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> Meetoo. Moof.
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Then I will keep to use the name "linuxdoc-tools", until
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that tools are required by no user.
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I hope that I can drop it entirely in the end, but currently
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it seems that many users want it to be somehow supported, so
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I think that I should work for them as far as I can.
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# I'm a Debian member, so I follow our Social Contract.
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# It says "Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software",
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# and it is one of the reasons why I keep the maintainance of
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# the Debian package of sgml-tools v1. another reason will be
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# explained later.
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> OBTW: www.sgmltools.org is currently pointing at the SGMLtools-Lite project.
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> I intend to have more than that on it ASAP, especially a pointer to
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> linuxdoc-tools. ASAP will probably be somewhere this weekend...
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Thanks.
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In <<a href="msg02458.html">200005171902.VAA01376@alpha.cdg.acriter.nl</a>>,
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at "Wed, 17 May 2000 21:02:22 +0200",
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cg@cdegroot.com (Cees de Groot) writes:
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> godoy@conectiva.com.br said:
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> > You changing the command name now will cause more trouble, IMHO..
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>
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> He just changed the package name. I think the command names are still
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> "sgml2xxx", whereas SGMLtools-Lite has "sgmltools" (specifically done so it
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> doesn't conflict).
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Yes, "sgml2xxxx" and "sgmlcheck" will remain for backward compatibility.
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But I changed one command name, which is "sgmltools", because it conflicts
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the command in SGMLTools-Lite (and the SGMLTools-2, which is succeeded to
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by current SGMLTools-Lite). Anyway, that command "sgmltools" in v1 only
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exists for other commands (they are all symbolic links to "sgmltools") and
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it can not be used by users directly to do some productive work, to rename
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just this command only, may not cause so much confusion, I think.
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And to avoid the conflict with SGMLTools-Lite, this renaming itself is
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imperative.
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The new command name for old "sgmltools" in v1, is "linuxdoc".
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I had tried to use "linuxdoc-tools" for it, but it seems too long for me.
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> It looks like SGMLtools-Lite, in order to be compliant with the upcoming LSB
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> recommendation for SGML stuff, needs to parse out the document type of its
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> input document anyway; that would be an option to provide wrappers around
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> SGMLtools-Lite that call linuxdoc-tools (or whatever you call it - the "old
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> Perl stuff for LinuxDoc") so people could indeed trigger everything with
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> "sgmltools --backend....".
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I hope so. Please let me know the required task, if there is.
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By the way, in order to explain my intention, I quote from README
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in the linuxdoc-tools below:
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===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
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*** This is the README file for the Linuxdoc-Tools package, version 0.1
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*** Currently, there are no official homepage for Linuxdoc-Tools.
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You can reach the current maintainer (me) on ldp-discuss list
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(Infomation about this list is available from LDP website,
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<<A HREF="http://www.linuxdoc.org/">http://www.linuxdoc.org/</A>>) or sending mail to <sano@debian.org>.
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Linuxdoc-Tools is in fact a small bug-fix version of SGML-Tools 1.0.9.
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SGML-Tools 1.0.9 is the last official release of SGML-Tools with the
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direct support for LinuxDoc DTD. More recent version of SGML-Tools 2.x
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and its successor, SGMLtools-Lite <<A HREF="http://sgmltools-lite.sourceforge.net/">http://sgmltools-lite.sourceforge.net/</A>>
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only supports the conversion from LinuxDoc DTD sgml into DocBook DTD.
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But currently many HOWTO documents in LDP are still provided as
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LinuxDoc DTD sgml files, and many Linux users wish to use the tool
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which converts LinuxDoc DTD sgml files into various format direclty.
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So I made modification on SGML-Tools 1.0.9, and release the result
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as a new branch, in order to avoid the confusion with the SGML-Tools
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and the SGMLTools-Lite.
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(clip)
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This system is tailored for LinuxDoc DTD sgml file, and other DTDs
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are not supported. If you needs the tool for DocBook DTD (which is
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now more popular DTD than LinuxDoc in writing technical software
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documentation), then you should check SGMLTools-Lite, OpenJade,
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and docbook-tools. There is some information page on LDP web site
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for these tools.
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(clip)
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Linuxdoc-Tools depends on the usage of sgml parser from Jade or OpenJade
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(nsgmls or onsgmls). You have to install either of them to use this.
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Matt Welsh originally created the pacakge under the name Linuxdoc-SGML,
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using James Clark's sgmls parser and the QWERTZ DTD by Tom Gordon.
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Then Greg Hankins maintained it. It was renamed to SGML-Tools later,
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and had been maintained by Cees de Groot <cg@cdegroot.com>.
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SGML-Tools 2.x was heavily changed from 1.0.x to drop the direct support
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of Linuxdoc DTD and adopt the support of DocBook DTD using Jade.
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SGMLtools-Lite is the latest branch from SGML-Tools 2.x, and it is
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maintained by Cees at <<A HREF="http://sgmltools-lite.sourceforge.net/">http://sgmltools-lite.sourceforge.net/</A>>.
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This Linuxdoc-Tools is the branch from SGML-Tools 1.0.9, and its
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focus is to provide the backward compatibility for users of old
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documents.
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This branch uses patch from JF ("The Japanese FAQ Project") to support
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euc-jp encoded Japanese sgml file on sgml2txt, sgml2html, and sgml2latex.
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(sgml2info, sgml2lyx, and sgml2rtf are not verified on Japanese support.)
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(clip)
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===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
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I don't want to put too much effort on this branch. I will work
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for some more bug fixes if they are found, but would not add
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many enhancment on it, except some more i18n support (which is
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rather classified as bug-fixes, for me. Because we Japanese
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can not use the tools in practice if it lacks the support of
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our language).
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As for linuxdoc DSSSL stylesheets, I prefer to improve the existing
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ld2db.dsl which is provided by SGMLTools-Lite. I have already
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subscribed the sgml-tools-lite ml, and have once done checkout
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of the cvs tree of sgml-tools-lite. But I can't work for that
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before I myself learn about DSSSL more.
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And, if the Linuxdoc DTD is legacy and will be not used in future,
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then I doubt if it is worth the effort to create and maintain
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the totally new stylesheets for this legacy dtd.
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More, I have subscribed docbook-tools list, and have read
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what Norman Walsh wrote there. Maybe even the DocBook DSSSL
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will be obsoleted in a few years. Nothing can be said for
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LinuxDoc DSSSL.
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I think the conversion script using ld2db.dsl is worth
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for the effort, because it will work when writers finally
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decide to move on the DocBook world (even if it is only
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the intermediate step for XML).
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But if writers wish to live in the legacy world, then
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they wish to use the "old Perl stuff for LinuxDoc" on
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their machine, I think.
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Here are the report from a user of my Debian package,
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sent at December in last year:
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Currently linuxdoc is the only format acceptable to the Linux
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Documentation Project. When we start accepting DocBook, we plan to
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also permit linuxdoc for those who are familiar with it. People has
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had problems with the slow speed of using DocBook on old computers.
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(You can read the record of this report from:
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<<A HREF="http://cgi.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?archive=yes&bug=27094">http://cgi.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?archive=yes&bug=27094</A>>)
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if "People has had problems with the slow speed of using DocBook
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(They use the jade, I think) on old computers", then they prefer
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to keep using the old staff until they get their new, faster, and
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more powerful computers.
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I have heard: "Do not put new wine into old bottles."
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and I choose to put old wine into old bottles, until
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no one wish to drink that old wine.
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Thanks.
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--
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Taketoshi Sano: <sano@debian.org>,<sano@debian.or.jp>,<kgh12351@nifty.ne.jp>
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</pre>
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<ul><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
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<li><strong><a name="02470" href="msg02470.html">Re: experimental release of linuxdoc-tools (based on sgml-tools 1.0.9)</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Guylhem Aznar <guylhem@ifrance.com></li></ul></li>
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</ul></li></ul>
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<ul><li><strong>References</strong>:
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<ul>
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<li><strong><a name="02452" href="msg02452.html">Re: experimental release of linuxdoc-tools (based on sgml-tools 1.0.9)</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Adam Di Carlo <adam@onshore.com></li></ul></li>
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<li><strong><a name="02457" href="msg02457.html">Re: experimental release of linuxdoc-tools (based on sgml-tools 1.0.9)</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> cg@cdegroot.com (Cees de Groot)</li></ul></li>
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