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<title>RE: Slashdot reply (draft 0.1)</title>
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<h1>RE: Slashdot reply (draft 0.1)</h1>
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<li><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org">ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org</A></li>
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<li><em>Subject</em>: RE: Slashdot reply (draft 0.1)</li>
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<li><em>From</em>: Gregory Leblanc <<A HREF="mailto:GLeblanc@cu-portland.edu">GLeblanc@cu-portland.edu</A>></li>
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<li><em>Date</em>: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:23:24 -0800</li>
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<li><em>Resent-date</em>: 11 Feb 2000 08:23:45 -0000</li>
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<li><em>Resent-message-id</em>: <JmORXB.A.9NC.Rc8o4@murphy></li>
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<li><em>Resent-sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org">ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org</A></li>
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<pre>
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> -----Original Message-----
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> From: Guylhem Aznar [<A HREF="mailto:guylhem@metalab.unc.edu">mailto:guylhem@metalab.unc.edu</A>]
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> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 3:17 PM
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> To: ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org
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> Subject: Slashdot reply (draft 0.1)
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>
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>
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> Hi,
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>
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> Here's the message I would like to post after the slashdot announce.
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> It provide us many feedback, which is listed underneath.
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>
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> I think we should respond to the questions raised, I will post the
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> following messages after comments & fixes (it's the 1st draft, freshly
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> typed)
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>
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[snip]
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>
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> - How can I submit my work to the LDP?
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>
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> 4 possibilities :
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> a. you can write in LinuxDoc : call your document an HOWTO
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> b. you can write in DocBook : call your document a DOCBOOK :-)
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> c. you are a master of TeX/LaTeX, pdf or any specific format
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> : call your
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> document a GUIDE
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> d. you only know ascii and html : call your document a FAQ
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<flame>This is really stupid. I'm sure there's a logic behind this, but I
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can't grasp what it is. I understand why these were put in place, but not
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why they're still in use. We should abolish silly distinctions to allow
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authors to more easily submit documents, especially since we're accepting
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DocBook. Hugo van der Wahls (I think I spelled that right) has made some
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RPMs of the new versions of SGMLTools, so at least some people can do the
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translation from DocBook to other formats. Calling your document a FAQ
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because you don't know any breed of SGML other than HTML is silly. If we're
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going to use the terms "FAQ", "HOWTO", "GUIDE", and whatever else, it should
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be because the document logically is a FAQ, because it's a series of
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questions, or a HOWTO, because it tells HOW TO do something. If we're going
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to classify documents by their format, let's just DO IT, and make categories
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based on format. But the best thing for users is to classify documents by
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structure/content, and keep sections like HOWTO, FAQ, etc. If necessary, we
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could break sections down something similar to:
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LDP/
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LDP/FAQ/
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LDP/HOWTO/ (put the actual plain text HOWTO documents here)
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LDP/HOWTO/DocBook/ (put the DocBook source here)
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LDP/HOWTO/LinuxDoc/ (put the LinuxDoc source here)
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LDP/HOWTO/pdf/ (put pdf output here)
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LDP/HOWTO/ps/ (put PS output here)
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LDP/HOWTO/tex/ (put tex output here)
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LDP/HOWTO/html/ (put html output here)
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LDP/HOWTO/stuff I missed/ (put the stuff I missed here)
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LDP/GUIDE/
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...
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And so on, for each type of document that's available. For the markup of
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documents, we should (for now) request that they be submitted in LinuxDoc,
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with no errors (validating is easy). Second choice should be DocBook, then
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HTML, then either plain text or LaTeX or Tex. We should not accept source
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in pdf, or ps, or any of the ones that I've not mentioned here. This
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structure would allow us to accept just about any document anybody writes
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about/for Linux. Depending on how opaque TeX and LaTeX are, perhaps we
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should not accept those either? If we accept documents in any format other
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than SGML (either DTD), we should encourage the authors to re-write those
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documents in SGML. Perhaps when these documents arrive, we can get a
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volunteer to "translate" one section/chapter of the document to SGML and
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send it to the author so that they have a good idea what it should look
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like. For BIG documents, like guides and things of that nature, we should
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be a little more pushy about SGML, since management of big documents is much
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harder in any other format. I didn't mean to make that seem to be directed
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at any individual, so please don't take it too hard. Anyway, someplace in
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there I ended that "flame" so I'll just close it here </flame>
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>
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> Then please a license compatible with our requirements (GNU Free
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> Documentation License is IMHO the best choice but feel free
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> to take any
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> other license) and mail your document to ldp-submit@lists.linuxdoc.org
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This should have a pointer to the manifesto so that they know what our
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requirements are.
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> - You should check the documents : FIXED
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>
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> We already do!
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>
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> Since november, a peer reviewer team is trying to proof read each
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> submitted document.
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>
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> However, there are far too many docs submitted to ldp-submit.
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This doesn't sound too good, it implies that we don't want this many
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documents submitted. We want MORE documents submitted, not less, right?
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> We can not proof read each document ; if you feel like
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> helping us please
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> subscribe to ldp-submit (mail ldp-submit-request@lists.linuxdoc.org).
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If we really want this to work better, we should break things up a bit, or
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change the guidelines for submitting. People should contact someone from
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the LDP BEFORE starting a project (I know, this is in the guidelines, but
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maybe we should make it a bigger deal). Once they're written a document, we
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need to have people from the community in general read over it and review it
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for content and some grammar/spelling. Perhaps we should add another list,
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the LDP-editors@lists.linuxdoc.org, as a place to submit documents for
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grammar/style/markup editing, and the LDP-submit list should become an
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automated submission mechanism.
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>
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> - XXXX and YYYY HOWTOs are outdated/unmaintained
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>
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> Please update the document if the license allows modifications.
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> We will be happy to include your new version (News HOWTO and
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> SCSI HOWTO
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> are especially old!).
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I'm not sure that we should be singling (sp?) out any particular HOWTOs, but
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perhaps pointing them to the page ordered by date that Greg F has created.
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>
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> - I just found ZZZZ HOWTO which is not part of the LDP yet
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>
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> Then please contact the author and ask him to send his document to
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> ldp-submit@lists.linuxdoc.org
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>
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> Chances are we will include it, unless it contains errors, has a non
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> free license, or duplicates an existing document.
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>
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> - license problem, GNU/Linux... FIXED
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>
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> We have a manifesto and a license guide on the first page ; both are
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> currently being revised.
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>
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> We will not impose any license but rather have some criteria and
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> requirements (free redistribution for ex.)
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>
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> And if you don't like "LDP", just remember netscape/mozilla : it's
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> written LDP but it reads GNU Linux Documentation Project.
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>
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> ***
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>
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> Sorry for this long reply, we would like to help the
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> community the best
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> we can but writing documentation is not as sexy as writing
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> software, and
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> documentation or authors themselves are poorly considered (quoting a
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> slashdotter: "Honestly, how many users want to read documentation? How
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> many of them see a fat manual and feel happy?")
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Ooh, me me me!!! Maybe we should ask /.ers to help make documentation
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writing "sexier" (I really don't believe that it's going to get me any
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dates, but what the heck) by helping out with the LDP, either by sending
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comments and suggestions on the HOWTOs that they use, or some other method
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(ALL linux users use HOWTOs, I've been at this a long time and haven't
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learned everything yet)
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>
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> I think programmers should try to document their own apps (quoting a
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> slashdotter again : "If I can't clearly and concisely write what I'm
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> doing then my algorithm just isn't very good")
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I'm not sure that this is a good policy to take. There are some programmers
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who perhaps aren't very good at writing, but might be able to hack the
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nicest, most efficient code you've ever seen. I'd have to say that /.er's
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quote isn't appropraite for this follow-up, nor is this statement.
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>
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> And we need more authors, but anybody can't be an author, it requires
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> skills, knowledge and a bit of disinterest for when people
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> criticize your
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> HOWTO they didn't even read.
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I like the re-write that somebody proposed much better than this paragraph,
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it makes it sound like you shouldn't care if somebody bashes your HOWTO.
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YOU SHOULD CARE, and you should try to discuss the suggestions/comments that
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they made in order to improve your HOWTO. Well, it's tomorrow already, and
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I've got to be out of the house by 6:30 tomorrow, so I'll have to get some
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sleep. Again, not wanting to come off as an a$$ &%*@, I'll appologize to
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everybody I've offended, and especially to Guy, since he's doing a great
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job.
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Grg
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--
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To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org
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with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
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</pre>
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<ul><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
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<ul>
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<li><strong><a name="01403" href="msg01403.html">RE: Slashdot reply (draft 0.1)</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Hugo.van.der.Kooij@caiw.nl</li></ul></li>
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<li><strong><a name="01404" href="msg01404.html">Re: Slashdot reply (draft 0.1)</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Guylhem Aznar <guylhem@metalab.unc.edu></li></ul></li>
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<li><strong><a name="01405" href="msg01405.html">Slashdot reply (draft 0.2)</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Guylhem Aznar <guylhem@metalab.unc.edu></li></ul></li>
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</ul></li></ul>
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