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<h1>Re: Processing HOWTOs</h1>
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<ul>
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<li><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org">ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org</A></li>
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<li><em>Subject</em>: Re: Processing HOWTOs</li>
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<li><em>From</em>: Stein Gjoen <<A HREF="mailto:sgjoen@mail.nyx.net">sgjoen@mail.nyx.net</A>></li>
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<li><em>Date</em>: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:27:45 +0100</li>
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<li><em>Cc</em>: <A HREF="mailto:ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org">ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org</A></li>
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<li><em>References</em>: <20000124233050.A22764@morgana.systemy.it> <<a href="msg01137.html">388CDAB8.579A83E3@cu-portland.edu</a>> <<a href="msg01149.html">m3vh4hlubm.fsf@maya.linux.ca</a>> <<a href="msg01150.html">388EBCB2.95774F2@mail.nyx.net</a>> <<a href="msg01153.html">10001261119.ZM11214@hoop.timonium.sgi.com</a>></li>
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<li><em>Resent-date</em>: 27 Jan 2000 20:28:23 -0000</li>
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<pre>
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Due to fringertrouble at my end this went to Greg Ferguson alone, I
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intended it to go to the list, sorry about that.
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This is getting big, I have trimmed quite a bit...
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Greg Ferguson wrote:
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>
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> On Jan 26, 10:21am, Stein Gjoen wrote:
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> > Subject: Processing HOWTOs
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> >
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> > > IMHO, while the LDP is amazing, let's not kid ourselves about quality.
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> > Sadly true. So when is the core team going to post a request
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> > for new authors or maintainers on <A HREF="news:comp.os.linux.announce">news:comp.os.linux.announce</A> ?
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> > It wouldn't cost to try.
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>
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> There is no longer a core team; there are volunteers. If you would
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> like to take on that task, I think everyone involved with the LDP
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> would be most appreciative!
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I'll be happy to do the web promotion and I hope to finish a
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NetHelp framework to demonstrate a potentialy more userfriendly
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format for HOWTOs.
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Having been remarkably unsuccessful in getting feedback from
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Slashdot poll system, I'll leave the people-to-people promotion
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to someone more successful.
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> > > >> To this aim, we need a charismatic leader or group of leaders,
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> > > >> who can accept and refuse works without offending anybody.
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> > >
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> > > No, we need a process whereby docs can be rated and comments attached
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> > > by the user base. We need stats to show which docs are actually read,
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> > > and a followup process which asks the reader if the doc was actually
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> > > helpful. This is basic Customer Support 101.
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See note later on about the Freshmeat mechanism...
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> > To get proper stats we also need to promote. I did some automated
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> > web promotion of my HOWTO and raised the hit counts from
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> > about 50 a day to 300-500 a day. What has the core team done in
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> > this respect? This is hardly the firt time I ask/suggest but I
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> > have yet to see an answer. Some actual hit stats from the LDP
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> > site would tell us how we are doing.
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>
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> Again, anyone part of this mailing list, anyone that has used
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> the LDP, anyone that likes what they see can assist in promoting
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> the LDP. Posting to the ng's is no doubt a good place to start.
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> Placing links to the TPL on individual websites is another.
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Agreed, very much.
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> > > Maybe we should treat authors like software authors: When someone is
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> > > the maintainer of a software package, they put their email address on
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> > > it. They _expect_ to receive bug reports and gripes which are then
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> > > folded back into the software to improve it. When it gets to be too
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> > > much for them, they hand the reigns to someone else.
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> > >
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> > > How about this: A new display engine on the website which lists the
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> > > requested doc in the right frame, but down the left margin lists
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> > > the title, the date, author contact info and the version numbers of
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> > > mentioned software. Below this is a survey form that says "How
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> > > useful is this doc?" Then, once we have a significant database of
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> > > reviews, when someone searches for a doc, the search results page
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> > > shows the title of the document followed by its review metrics, its
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> > > age and the version numbers.
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> >
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> > Good idea, I second this.
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>
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> I *like* the idea, but I'm worried about us modifying the display
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> in any way, shape or form...especially using frames. Call it
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> paranoia.
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Sorry, I was too quick, I dislike the frame mechanism but the
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table tags can be put to good use here. Take the HOWTO
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index page, run it through a script to add on the survey,
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comments field etc. or use the Freshmeat method.
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> How about, for a start, just a simple way to provide feedback - a
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> page linked to from the other "main" pages we have on the LDP? It
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> may at least help to garner some form of feedback. I realize it isn't
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> quite the fine-grained functionality we'd like to have/need, but it
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> is a start.
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>
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> I can put together a form and then collect and/or email the
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> results from each inquiry; if this is an approach we decide
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> upon. Like I said, it's a starting point; it might remove the
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> intimidation factor some people might feel wrt emailing an
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> author directly.
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A user writable web log would lessen the burden of maintaining
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the system, something I feel is important given the limited
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resources.
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> > > Part of this is also proper dating of material. All LDP docs should
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> > > say right at the top the date of last revision, and the search engine
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> > > results must tell me this. What good is it to find a ppp-2.1 or a
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> > > kernel-2.0 doc? Maybe I really am looking for help with old
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> > > technology, but I will bet real money most queries against the LDP
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> > > search engine are looking for help with the most recent Linux
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> > > distributions --- the vast majority of the Linux users out there today
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> > > have been using Linux for less than a year.
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Perhaps the HOWTO HOWTO should have a few notes about
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obligatory parts such as
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- date
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- version number
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- email address
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- document homepage
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> > Again this is not the first time this topic comes up and many
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> > authors were approached by a 3.rd party willing to take up that
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> > job. Nothing has been heard of since.
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> >
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> > I proposed an automated cooperation with Freshmeat, another idea
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> > that sunk mostly without a trace. Yet when I check the place
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> > <A HREF="http://freshmeat.net/search.php3?query=HOWTO">http://freshmeat.net/search.php3?query=HOWTO</A>
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> > I find 17 HOWTOs have quietly been registered, and tracking
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> > numbers and dating is done, an example:
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> > <A HREF="http://freshmeat.net/appindex/1999/06/26/930410556.html">http://freshmeat.net/appindex/1999/06/26/930410556.html</A>
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> > Looking closer I notice it is possible for users to make
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> > comments directly to those web pages. It does look like
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> > Freshmeat ALREADY has done what we have talked about.
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I would like to add that you also get click-though statistics
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for each document, that could save us a lot of work.
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> > I suggest we get a TODO list of good ideas up. Many ideas come
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> > up again and again and sink without trace. I think even a TODO
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> > list was mentioned some time ago but funnily enough nothing
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> > happened.
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>
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> Start sending me items, I'll put one together.
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OK, a few points:
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- Add META tags to the LDP homepage, that can improve ranking
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on many search engines
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- Ask the maintainer of the Pedia to join LDP, if not we should
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add a link to his page
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- Many have links to LDP, it is only polite to return the favour,
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also there are many links to zines we could add
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- add a link to FAQs
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- An idea from IMDB, add links to "related topics", for instance
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for the Multi Disk HOWTO the Partitioning- , Partition Rescue- ,
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Large Disk HOWTO are relevant. Again links to Usenet News FAQs
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could be relevant
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- Consider a link to OSWG; while politically sensitive here we
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should not forget the end users might benefit here
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- Get the rest of the HOWTOs registered with Freshmeat
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- Ask Linux Weekly News to get a small section on LDP news,
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perhaps best place is their Development section
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- run an automated robot to look for broken links in documents;
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many like me don't have the net access to do this well
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- Approach the various distribution compilers to join this
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mailing list, and persuade them to keep fresh LDP HOWTO archives
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in their errata section
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- Make an intro.ldp manpage to point out to users where to find
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the HOWTOs on their disks, not all know of /usr/doc/HOWTO
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- Make the TODO list, with dates on submission and completion
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-
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(have to stop, machine about to crash...)
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Regards,
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Stein Gjoen
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--
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</pre>
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<ul><li><strong>References</strong>:
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<ul>
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<li><strong><a name="01137" href="msg01137.html">Re: mini-HOWTO</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Gregory Leblanc <gleblanc@cu-portland.edu></li></ul></li>
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<li><strong><a name="01149" href="msg01149.html">Re: mini-HOWTO</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@canada.com></li></ul></li>
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<li><strong><a name="01150" href="msg01150.html">Processing HOWTOs</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Stein Gjoen <sgjoen@mail.nyx.net></li></ul></li>
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<li><strong><a name="01153" href="msg01153.html">Re: Processing HOWTOs</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> "Greg Ferguson" <gferg@hoop.timonium.sgi.com></li></ul></li>
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