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<!--X-Subject: Re: Open Document Environment (ODE) -->
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<title>Re: Open Document Environment (ODE)</title>
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<h1>Re: Open Document Environment (ODE)</h1>
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<ul>
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<li><em>To</em>: Kim Lester <<A HREF="mailto:kim@dfusion.com.au">kim@dfusion.com.au</A>></li>
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<li><em>Subject</em>: Re: Open Document Environment (ODE)</li>
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<li><em>From</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:dave@lafn.org">dave@lafn.org</A>></li>
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<li><em>Date</em>: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 22:18:07 -0800</li>
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<li><em>Cc</em>: <A HREF="mailto:ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org">ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org</A></li>
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<li><em>In-reply-to</em>: <<a href="msg01002.html">3876F51E.3DF0E10E@dfusion.com.au</a>></li>
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<li><em>Mail-followup-to</em>: Kim Lester <kim@dfusion.com.au>,ldp-discuss@lists.linuxdoc.org</li>
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<li><em>References</em>: <<a href="msg01002.html">3876F51E.3DF0E10E@dfusion.com.au</a>></li>
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<li><em>Resent-date</em>: 10 Jan 2000 06:19:44 -0000</li>
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<li><em>Resent-from</em>: <A HREF="mailto:ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org">ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org</A></li>
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<pre>
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On Sat, Jan 08, 2000 at 08:28:14AM +0000, Kim Lester wrote:
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>
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> What we are trying to achieve
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> =============================
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>
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> To reiterate the point of this post:
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>
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> Stop evolving documentation systems and bring all the documentation
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> together in one easy to access form.
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>
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If the evolution of Linux documentation ever stops then we're in big
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trouble. We need to lay out a plan for a projected future system of
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documentatation and then one (or two) steps at a time progress toward
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that goal. However, as we come up with better ideas and technology,
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the planned doc system needs to be changed from time-to-time. I
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think that while work is underway to complete plan-A, work should also
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start on heading toward plan-B where plan-B is the successor to
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plan-A.
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It all needs to be flexible. If plan-C (successor to plan-A) can be
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implemented much faster if plan-B is scrapped then perhaps some plans
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should never be implemented. This is all a process of continuous
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evolution an intergration.
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> How
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> ===
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>
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> I'm not even going to attempt all this on my own, if the community can't
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> be
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> far-sighted enough and altrusitic enough to help then the task will be
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> futile.
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The LDP has at least of couple of people who have been looking into
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the integration of Linux documentation: Peter Elliot
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<axit@paradise.net.nz> and David Wheeler <dwheeler@ida.org>
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One of LDP's goals mentioned in our manifesto is to integrate
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all Linux documentation. That's exactly what you are proposing.
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Next time could you limit line length to about 70 cols. so as to avoid
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wrap arounds? Also could you make less typos?
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> I have joined the LDP, GDP, LKBP OSWG discussion groups and will cc this
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> thread to
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> all groups above (unless I get too many childish flames). I believe this
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> is one of the few
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> time when, what is effectively cross posting, is important to this
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> community.
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>
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> I propose creating an umbrella group of which all (hopefully) the
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> above groups would be members.
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>
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> This group would coordinate the infra-structure of all documentation,
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> (ie the "ideal" format, the permitted formats, the indexing/xref'ing
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> scheme
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> papaer output etc).
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> Once this has been dertermined (with all your input and expertise)
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> everyone
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> can, more-or-less get on with waht they were doing before, but in this
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> agreed
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> framework.
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>
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I would like to see the LDP be the lead group in this effort but all
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the groups need to become involved.
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> Scope of Group
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> ==============
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>
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> I've tentatively named the umbrella group "Open Documentation
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> Environment (ODE)"
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I don't like this name. I think you should replace "Open" with
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"Free". All non-free documentation is "open" since you can look at it
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once you buy it. It's a different story for programs since for most
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commercial software you can't look at the code. The "Open Source
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Definition (TM)" applies only to software and what it defines is
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ambiguous and not exactly free. So I propose you call it say "Plan-A
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Linux Documentation System". You need to have version numbers or the
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like (A, B, C, ... or numeric)
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> General Design Goals
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> ====================
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>
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> * Implementation of a Bookshelf concept
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> A bookshelp is a simple visual pardigm.
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> There would be bookselves in a range of categories (eg End User,
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> Administrator, Developer).
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This doesn't work very well for Linux since each person that puts
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Linux on their PC is both an Administrator and End User. When they
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start fixing bugs and compiling the fix they also become a Developer.
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> Only the relevant Bookshelves need to be displayed (by default) for any
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> user. Searches
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> would also be confined to selected bookshelves.
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What about docs that belong to multiple bookshelves?
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>
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> Books on any topic could be added to a bookshelf. General book writing
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> guidelines
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> would keep books releveant to their category.
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I don't think this should be imposed on authors. Often new ways to
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organize knowledge is desirable.
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>
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> Bookshelves could be added to via a web site.
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What about updating rather than adding.
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> Thus a user has a list of available books.
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> Books would be installed wither locally, on a LAN or on the net.
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I like to see a book called a book.
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> All would appear to the user. (Maybe different colours etc ro indicate
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> local/LAN/web access etc).
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>
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> All this would be transparent to the user. Available book contents
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> pages/indexes would automatically
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> be downloaded and available for perusal. If a WEB based book looked
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> interesting then either the whole
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> book or just a few pages could be downloaded asrequired.
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>
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> Indexing/cross referencing should also provide the ability to show info
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> (maybe in a pastel hue) of
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I suggest that this also be possible also on dumb teminals by use of
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bold, inverse video, etc. If this is not feasible you could have a
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system of symbols to mark the "color" of a word.
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> information on say software that is available but not installed.
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> So many time users have not been aware of installed software let alone
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> software avaialble on the net.
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> For example if I wanted an image editor.
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> I could ask for a search on "Image Editors (Raster)" and be told that I
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> had say one on my system and
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> 3 avaialble for download from the net. "Hmmm the installed one doesn't
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> do what I wnat. But this other one
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> interests me I'll download its overview page and maybe help contents.
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> Looks good, ok go get it."
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>
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> I have dozens (probably hundreds of programs installed on my system)
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> that I don't use.
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> Why are they there?
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> Because
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> a) I might need them
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> b) I don't know they're there.
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> c) I don't need them but they were installed anyway because I didn't
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> know any better
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>
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> It would be so much better to install just a few "common" apps and ta
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> good documetnation system.
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> Then have the others books/apps installed on demand.
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> With the bookshelf system we have access to the docs of programs not
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> installed so we don't ahve to worry about
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> missing out (and often installing everything just to be sure)!
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> Then we'd install just what we needed.
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>
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>
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> NOTE: In the future this could also support download of commercial
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> books/sw for a fee, but we
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> won't deal with that for now.
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>
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>
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> Books might actually consist of docuemnts that appear in several places
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> as relevant.
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> Eg a technical chapter on PPP configuration might appear as a
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> document/book under Installation
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> and also under Administration and even uder Operating System
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> (internals). ALthough one has
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> to be careful it can be taken too far. It is not a substitude for
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> sloppy categorisation!
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Referencing docs covering the same topic each with a different scope
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and style and calling it a "book" doesn't seem right.
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This point is less than 1/3 the way though and I'm quiting here. I
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suggest that this be thought out more thoroughly and rewritten. But I
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appreciate your enthusiasm.
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David Lawyer
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--
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</pre>
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<ul><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
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<ul>
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<li><strong><a name="00998" href="msg00998.html">Re: Open Document Environment (ODE)</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Kim Lester <kim@dfusion.com.au></li></ul></li>
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<li><strong><a name="00995" href="msg00995.html">Re: Open Document Environment (ODE)</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Kim Lester <kim@dfusion.com.au></li></ul></li>
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</ul></li></ul>
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<ul><li><strong>References</strong>:
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<ul>
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<li><strong><a name="01002" href="msg01002.html">Open Document Environment (ODE)</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> Kim Lester <kim@dfusion.com.au></li></ul></li>
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</ul></li></ul>
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