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<!--X-Subject: Re: Some technical suggestions -->
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<!--X-From-R13: Egrva Uwbra <ftwbraNznvy.alk.arg> -->
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<!--X-Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 06:30:37 -0500 (EST) -->
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<title>Re: Some technical suggestions</title>
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[<a href="msg00647.html">Date Prev</a>][<a href="msg00649.html">Date Next</a>][<a href="msg00645.html">Thread Prev</a>][<a href="msg00654.html">Thread Next</a>][<a href="maillist.html#00648">Date Index</a>][<a href="threads.html#00648">Thread Index</a>]
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<h1>Re: Some technical suggestions</h1>
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<ul>
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<li><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:cognition@bigfoot.com">cognition@bigfoot.com</A></li>
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<li><em>Subject</em>: Re: Some technical suggestions</li>
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<li><em>From</em>: Stein Gjoen <<A HREF="mailto:sgjoen@mail.nyx.net">sgjoen@mail.nyx.net</A>></li>
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<li><em>Date</em>: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 12:29:48 +0100</li>
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<li><em>Cc</em>: <A HREF="mailto:ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org">ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org</A></li>
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<li><em>References</em>: <<a href="msg00645.html">Pine.LNX.3.96.991108225221.1369A-100000@Pingu.cognite.net</a>></li>
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<li><em>Resent-cc</em>: recipient list not shown: ;</li>
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<li><em>Resent-date</em>: 9 Nov 1999 11:30:25 -0000</li>
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<li><em>Resent-from</em>: <A HREF="mailto:ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org">ldp-discuss@lists.debian.org</A></li>
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<li><em>Resent-message-id</em>: <tz0gmC.A.LSG.QXAK4@murphy></li>
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<li><em>Resent-sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org">ldp-discuss-request@lists.debian.org</A></li>
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<pre>
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cogNiTioN wrote:
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>
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> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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> Hash: SHA1
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>
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> On Mon, 8 Nov 1999, Stein Gjoen wrote:
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>
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> > SEARCHING
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> > =========
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> [...]
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> > - local searching:
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[snip]
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> How about creating a search command e.g. "howdoi keyword", or "howto -k
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> keyword", and acts like man -k does, except it uses the howto documents.
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It should be possible. The simpest way would be to search in the
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HOWTO index file itself.
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> Could a command (howto?) perhaps be setup that presents the user with a
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> list of the howto documents, and links that they can click on, or select,
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> that takes them to that howto document. (A keyword search could also be
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> included?)
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>
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> perhaps:
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> alias howto="lynx /usr/doc/howto/html/index.html"
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A bit more finesse would be required, we cannot assume that everyone
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has Lynx installed, they might use any nomber of alternatives such as
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Netscape, Amaya etc. In fact we cannot be sure what form the HOWTOs
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are stored in, text, compressed text, HTML etc.
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> Maybe even a command like howto multidisk would fire up the multidisk
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> howto, (as could man howto multidisk?)
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First we have to let people know it exists and where, then I guess
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tey will be able to read it with the appropriate tool such as
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less, zless, lynx, amaya or whatever they have. If they have the docs
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as HTML then a simple link would be all thta would be required to go
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from the search to the actual documents.
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> Maybe "howto -update" could check <A HREF="http://www.linuxdoc.org/updated.txt">http://www.linuxdoc.org/updated.txt</A> (or
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> similar) for files that have changed since the last time the files had
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> been downloaded, and then download the changed files. This would ensure
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> that the howto documents in circulation were kept up to date.
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>
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> The format of the updated.txt file could be:
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> howto-file-page.html:date-last-updated
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> (e.g.:
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> NET-3-HOWTO-10.html:08NOV1999
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> NET-3-HOWTO.html:08NOV1999
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> )
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>
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> This could also update a file called update.howto on the local machine
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> that said when each file had last been updated.
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The idea is intersting but also rather difficult. Few install
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raw HOWTOs temselves but rather use .rpm or .deb packages, and
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directly manipulating parts of such packages would be messy.
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Also it would mean that the LDP would have to make the package
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files rather than the distributors and I am not sure what people
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would think of that. Do we have the capacity to take on that
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task (not yet I think), and what does the current packaging
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maintainers think?
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> > Someone has made an online Linux encyclopedia which I found
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> > very useful and comprehenive. The author stated he is not happy
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> > with its low visibility, so why not join forces and invite him
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> > and his "Pedia" on board? It already contains many links to HOWTOs
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> > so we should perhaps help by reciprocating. Check
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> > <A HREF="http://members.aa.net/~swear/pedia/index.html">http://members.aa.net/~swear/pedia/index.html</A>
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>
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> IMHO, I think the LDP should join together and link to all other linux
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> documentation projects. This could get confusing, tho. so the link could
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> only be added if it has unique content, an easier way of looking at
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> things, something that makes it worthwhile linking to.
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I believe the Pedia adds a component that the LDP has not made
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but that complements the work in a useful way for experts as
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well as beginners.
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> > HELP FILES
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> > ==========
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> >
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> > I believe we need to add a SMALL text file into /etc/skel/ so all
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> > beginners get a starting point. How about this:
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>
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> also, the line:
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> For information on how to get help, type "less help.txt"
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> could be added to the motd. That way people would notice the file, and
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> realise that they can use it to get help on getting help.
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I don't agree on this. The motd should be kept lean and be a
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message for everyone, not just the beginners. A message on
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first logging in or an automated mail message should do the
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same trick I think.
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> The LDP is there to help the newest of new users, and therefore, NO prior
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> knowledge can be assumed, we need to present the user with a quick, easily
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> remembered way of accessing the howto files, tell them about it, and
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> inform them of the LDP, what it does. The documentation is what keeps me
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> with Linux (rather than BSD*), so this 'selling' point should be 'sold' at
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> every opportunity, IMHO.
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>
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> Also, could the LDP set up a mailing list that enabled users to send
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> questions or requests to help? I realise this could well be swamped
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> (perhaps moderated?), lots of the documentation I've read has said
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> something like for more help post to comp.linux.all-the-answers..., but I
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> don't read news, I never have, and lots of newbies probably won't either.
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> Or maybe we could work with lugs to provide this? (i.e. The ldp has a list
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> of lugs, each of which has been urged to set up a mailing list (if they
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> don't already have one), and the newbies are directed towards their local
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> one, shown details of how to subscribe to their list (via a web based
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> form?), and then they can ask for help from their lug. Perhaps one member
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> of each lug could report back to this list with a list of topics newbies
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> asked for help with, but that weren't covered by current howtos, or
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> explanations that frequently needed explaining.)
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I hope we can get the infrastructure (technical and operational)
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working first so we can measure the level of success in the (hopefully)
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reduced traffic in <A HREF="news:comp.os.linux.setup">news:comp.os.linux.setup</A> and mailing lists.
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Having achieved that I would welcome some kind of infrastructure for
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channelling feedback to the authors. Personally I welcome feedback but
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some traffic in the Slashdot discussions suggests people are too
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intimidated to approach author directly, and I have received some
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ultradiplomatic mail too.
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A semianonymizing channel such as feedback via lugs would therefore
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probaly open the floodgates before we are ready for it. Also I feel
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we should focus on getting the process working , fixing known
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deficiencies before opening this firehose.
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Incidentally it seems that the current vacuum is being filled by
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commercial entities, I see many posts from Questionexchange and
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others, picking up customers in <A HREF="news:comp.os.linux.setup">news:comp.os.linux.setup</A> by providing
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what the LDP should have done.
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> .org domain for co-ordinating the worldwide lugs? Could LDP
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> help with this? The more the LDP does, (obviously the more the user will
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> benefit, but also) the more people will hear the LDP mentioned, and this
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> will increase their awareness of our presence.
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Perhaps the LDP could make some presentation material for
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people to use in the LUG meetings?
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> Just my 0.02 (and the rest :), I apologise if some points have already
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> been brought up, and dismissed, or are currently in operation.
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>
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> If you'd like me to give coding an example "howto" program ago, let me
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> know, I don't think it'd be too hard in shell script.
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It could be interesting but also difficult if you want to make it work
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on a wide range of platforms, spanning numerous file formats
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(.txt, .txt.gz, .txt.bz2, .html), numerous readers (lynx, amaya, mc),
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and also several file locations depending on file standard used
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( /usr/doc/HOWTO/ and /usr/share/doc/HOWTO/ ).
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Regards,
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Stein Gjoen
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</pre>
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<li><strong><a name="00645" href="msg00645.html">Re: Some technical suggestions</a></strong>
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<ul><li><em>From:</em> cogNiTioN <cognition@bigfoot.com></li></ul></li>
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