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WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="41" border="0"></A>
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<SMALL>...<I>making Linux just a little more fun!</I></SMALL>
</TD><TD WIDTH="380">
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<BIG><BIG><STRONG><FONT COLOR="maroon">The MailBag</FONT></STRONG></BIG></BIG>
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<center>
<BIG><STRONG><FONT COLOR="maroon">HELP WANTED : Article Ideas</FONT></STRONG></BIG>
<BR>
<STRONG>Submit comments about articles, or articles themselves (after reading <a href="../faq/author.html">our guidelines</a>) to <A HREF="mailto:articlesubmission@linuxgazette.com">The Editors of <i>Linux Gazette</I></A>, and technical answers and tips about Linux to <A HREF="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com">The Answer Gang</A>.
</STRONG>
</center><HR>
<UL>
<!-- index_text begins -->
<li><A HREF="#wanted.1"
><strong>dual Booting xp @ suse8.2</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#wanted.2"
><strong>webdialer using http</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#wanted.3"
><strong>booting linux from flash memory!</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#wanted.4"
><strong>minicom related - help required</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#wanted.5"
><strong>Re:help with grub</strong></a>
<!-- index_text ends -->
</UL>
<!-- .~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~. -->
<P> <A NAME="wanted.1"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">dual Booting xp @ suse8.2</FONT></H3>
Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:44:39 -0700
<BR>Patrick B (<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com?cc=ironman616@hotmail.com&subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2095%5D%20help%20wanted%20%231">ironman616 from hotmail.com</a>)
<P>
I have two separate hard drives on my computer hda, hdb. Xp is on hda an
suse 8.2 is on hdb.Im booting suse with a floopy with lilo installed on
it.Do you know of a lilo configuration that will boot my system.I tried the
default installation that wrote the boot loader to the mbr .All I got when I
tried booting was a blinking curser in the upper left corner of the
screen.If you know of a lilo configuration that works I would be most
grateful.Any help is most appretiated.
</P>
<P>
ironman616
</P>
<P>
<!-- end 1 -->
<!-- .~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~. -->
<P> <A NAME="wanted.2"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">webdialer using http</FONT></H3>
Sat, 9 Aug 2003 11:39:22 +0100
<BR>Aengus Walton (<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com?cc=smiley0@myrealbox.com&subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2095%5D%20help%20wanted%20%232">smiley0 from myrealbox.com</a>)
<P>
I have a server and workstation and when I use the workstation it's
masqueraded behind the server, but when the rest of the family needs to get
on the net i have to get the server to logoff the net and they logon
directly from the windows workstation. So what I need is a http interface
to wvdial (if possible) that's compatible with IE..
</P>
<P>
I've already spent time installing webdialer (a project which does just
this) but unfortunatly it doesn't work too well with IE as its client, and
changing the client isn't an option.
</P>
<P>
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
</P>
<P>
cheers
</P>
<P>
Aengus
</P>
<!-- sig -->
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<P> <A NAME="wanted.3"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">booting linux from flash memory!</FONT></H3>
Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:27:18 +0000
<BR>Devi Priya (<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com?cc=ijpriya@hotmail.com&subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2095%5D%20help%20wanted%20%233">ijpriya from hotmail.com</a>)
<P>
Hello,
</P>
<P>
I am new to this list. I am involved in embedded project.
I have a system with linux as its operating system. My system has external
peripherals like SDRAM, Flash memory etc.
</P>
<P>
I have to boot my linux OS from Flash memory. I have a
BIOS programming which does the minimal hardware initialization. I would
like to know how to boot my OS from Flash memory?
</P>
<P>
Thanks in advance for any help!
</P>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Well, this fellow's just getting started and a google search probably
helped him more than we could. But,
if someone has their own tale of burning their own flash-based startup,
and what they were really using it for, I think it'd make a great article.
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
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<P> <A NAME="wanted.4"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">minicom related - help required</FONT></H3>
Tue, 5 Aug 2003 06:36:04 -0400 (EDT)
<BR>Sriram N.S. (<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com?cc=sriram_ns@hotvoice.com&subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2095%5D%20help%20wanted%20%234">sriram_ns from hotvoice.com</a>)
<P>
hi,
</P>
<P>
(1) I have been using minicom v2.00.0 on red-hat 7.3 to test
my serial-port driver. while doing file-transfers (with both
flow-controls disabled) i observe that minicom attempts to enable
software flow control automatically. this happens even when
hardware flow control has been enabled. i get to see the corresponding
ioctl being issued to the driver. how can i overcome this particular
problem??. i have been attempting the transfer operation at
baud-rates 230K, 115K using ZModem proto. Is there an undocumented
limitation with minicom with respect to speed??. This particular
problem also affects transfer of binary files as minicom mistakes
the content of the received file as control info.
</P>
<P>
(2) what are the possible causes for "Garbage Count exceeded"<TT>/</TT>"Bad
CRC" messages on minicom??
</P>
<P>
Your help in this regard will be highly appreciated
</P>
<P>
Rgds,
Sriram.
</P>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">If you have more juicy things to say than "there may be a new version out"
- any readers are welcome to chime in with real experiences on this one...
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
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<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">Re:help with grub</FONT></H3>
Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:33:39 -0500
<BR>cnuccio (<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com?cc=cnuccio@ltpro.com&subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2095%5D%20help%20wanted%20%235">cnuccio from ltpro.com</a>)
<P>
hi
</P>
<P>
i saw your linux tips about grub and am in a bit of a pickle and i
thought you could help.
</P>
<P>
i got a new dell with xp preisntalled. i asked for fat32 but they gave
me NTFS. anyway, so i instralled partition magic, made a 5 gig partiion
and setup boot magic (prepare for new OS).
</P>
<P>
i activated the partition and then booted to the redhat 9 (shrike) CD
and installed. reboot, and all i see is grub, with only linux as a
choice.
</P>
<P>
dell was no help, so i tried for a few days to get some info on
editing grub.conf and getting xp back booting. i tweaked and trial and
errored and first got it to boot to xp, but there was a "unable to
validated license" or something. no dialog to login.
</P>
<P>
more tweaking, added inter partition mapping (i assume the license key
was on another partition and it seemed to work even if i am wrong) got
it to get to login box, but after typing in log and PW, it just sat
there unable to start the explorer. i know i am close, but can't seem to
get grub correct.i found a GUI grubconf utlity, but it assumes you know
what you are doing.
</P>
<P>
here is my grub conf as i left it when my brain melted. i did a thing
or 2 more to it and broke it again, but it was late:
</P>
<p align="center">See attached <tt><a
href="misc/wanted/melted.grub-conf.txt">melted.grub-conf.txt</a></tt></p>
<p>and here is the output of fdisk -l to show my drive info:</p>
<p align="center">See attached <tt><a
href="misc/wanted/melted.fdisk-l.txt">melted.fdisk-l.txt</a></tt></p>
<P>
can you help me? i didn;t make rescue floppies (xp nor partition magix)
and didn't back up my
data ( i have done this several times with no probs.) and i really hate
reinstalling (mainly losing lots of unread mail) but i know i am
close...
</P>
<P>
please help if you can. thanks very much for your time.
</P>
<P>
chris nuccio
</P>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Anyone who's gotten their hands grubby with WinXP want to give it a shot?
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
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<HR>
<center>
<BIG><STRONG><FONT COLOR="maroon">GENERAL MAIL</FONT></STRONG></BIG>
<BR>
</center><HR>
<UL>
<!-- index_text begins -->
<li><A HREF="#mailbag.1"
><strong>The Mailbag: Article Idea: "Windows Defectors" column</strong></a>
<!-- index_text ends -->
</UL>
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<P> <A NAME="mailbag.1"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">The Mailbag: Article Idea: "Windows Defectors" column</FONT></H3>
Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:45:15 -0400
<BR>grok (<a href="mailto:articlesubmission@linuxgazette.com?subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2095%5D%20mailbag%20%231">grok from sprint.ca</a>)
<P><STRONG>
Hi all:
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG><BLOCKQuote>
I'm glad I came across this 'polemic' now (being, sadly, only a sometime
reader of LG). My 2-cents'-worth:
</BLOCKQuote></STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Some LG contributors seem to consistently miss the point as (for that
matter) do many GNU/Linux 'geeks': this isn't about what possible MS
defectors should or shouldn't be doing -- it's about what they <EM>will</EM>
do; and they WILL be staying away from GNU/Linux unnecessarily if they
anticipate the least complication in 'switching over' -- as is already
the case somewhat.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
The original letter-writer has hit the nail on the head (again -- as
this is not the first time this has come up, by any means). 'Turn-key'
types need -- and should receive -- all the help and encouragement they
can possibly get to switch over. To quibble ahead of time over the
methodology or the feasibility or the desirability, even, of getting a
significant percentage of Windows users to 'defect' to us, is more about
confusing the <EM>politics</EM> of the matter with the <EM>mechanics</EM> of it all.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
IMO 'geeks' seem to excel at being technically sophisticated about these
issues -- but politically naive in the extreme. It ain't rocket science
to understand that we simply are <EM>required</EM> to hold these people's hand
a bit in helping them over the hump, if we entertain any hopes of
freeing the planet from the thrall of Microsoft (and others). The
details will take care of themselves AFAIC -- discussion here of the
Knoppix solution being a case-in-point.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
As a former long-time 'windows tips' reader and fairly experienced
political activist -- and small-time GNU/Linux advocate/user of some
years' experience (if not expertise) as well -- there is one thing that
is ABUNDANTLY clear to me: there is absolutely NO fundamental
contradiction between having a 'turn-key', 'idiot-proof' GNU/Linux
install over top of the preferred geek wet-dream OS we all desire. We
<EM>can</EM> have things both ways (when it comes to GNU/Linux, if not in
Life). Geeks who object to 'dumbing things down', (for whatever reasons)
are simply missing the Big (non-technical) Picture -- which does INDEED
matter in the long term. Many GNU/Linux users won't settle for Free
Software becoming yet another 'niche market'. Too many geeks have said
as much that they wouldn't mind/care about such a state of affairs. They
clearly do not understand that this attitude <EM>could</EM> (but I don't
believe <EM>would</EM>) lead to the downfall of Free Software. It certainly
doesn't help, and actually harms, IMO our 'Cause' [i.e. see my
postscript].
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
I am looking forward to reading a forthcoming regular 'Windows
Defectors' column monthly in Linux Gazette.
;&gt;
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
P.S.: LG should do an article about the insulting little 'cliques' of
geeks who inhabit the various #debian/#linux/#other channels on IRC,
terrorizing and driving away newbies in droves.
Clearly these 'experts' have <EM>one</EM> set of problems <EM>they</EM> themselves
haven't yet 'defined'...
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="red">The staff here at LG had a mixed reaction to this. I've formatted the
replies we got below in the format that TAG is laid out as, so that you,
the gentle reader can still see the context of the reply.
-- Thomas Adam</font></blockquote>
<HR width="10%" align="center"><P><STRONG>
Some LG contributors seem to consistently miss the point as (for that
matter) do many GNU/Linux 'geeks': this isn't about what possible MS
defectors should or shouldn't be doing -- it's about what they <EM>will</EM>
do; and they WILL be staying away from GNU/Linux unnecessarily if they
anticipate the least complication in 'switching over' -- as is already
the case somewhat.
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Thomas]
Sigh, I think you're being too idealistic. I agree with you, but you
have to remember that "will do" is the operative phrase in your sentence.
Many people that write in asking questions such as "is Linux better than
Windows" often don't know themselves whether or not it would be a viable
alternative for them to switch, and so we ('we' as in the staff at LG) try
and extrapilate what they <EM>might</EM> want to do, based on the really poor
information that the querents send in.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Many people that want to run Linux though often have a
pre-conceived notion as to what they want to use it for, i.e. a webserver,
fileserver, mailserver, etc., and more often is the case that they've
heard
that Linux can do this, and so they concentrate their efforts in finding
out how Linux can do <EM>that</EM> specific task -- which is great. This then
usually gives them the insentive to explore Linux's capabilties further and
to get Linux to do Other Things (tm).
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
The original letter-writer has hit the nail on the head (again -- as
this is not the first time this has come up, by any means). 'Turn-key'
types need -- and should receive -- all the help and encouragement they
can possibly get to switch over.
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Thomas]
Which we try as best we can to provide. You have to understand though that
we can only go so far as to help them only <EM>if</EM> they are willing to put the
effort in themselves. There is only so much effort we can put in to a
querent's answer, based on how far he/she is prepared to take out efforts.
This is why joining a local LUG can be hugely beneficial for those who are
just finding their feet, as it were.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
I know of one querent (I shan't name names, although Heather will know who
I am talking about (Hi, Heather!)) who continually e-mails us questions.
This is great, since this is what we're here for in the first place, but it
seems to me as though very little to no effort is first put into researching
the question before it is sent. More often than not, we at the LG are a
front-end to google/linux.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
To quibble ahead of time over the
methodology or the feasibility or the desirability, even, of getting a
significant percentage of Windows users to 'defect' to us, is more about
confusing the <EM>politics</EM> of the matter with the <EM>mechanics</EM> of it all.
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Thomas]
Not at all, the two are virtually synonymous if you ask me, and often go
hand in hand, since it a) depends on <EM>what</EM> (if any specific task) person X
wants to do, and b) the mechanics are usually executed as a result of the
purpose for defecting. I use the term 'purpose' in the loose sense, since
there are some people who try Linux, just because they have heard a lot
about it.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
IMO 'geeks' seem to excel at being technically sophisticated about these
issues -- but politically naive in the extreme. It ain't rocket science
to understand that we simply are <EM>required</EM> to hold these people's hand
a bit in helping them over the hump, if we entertain any hopes of
freeing the planet from the thrall of Microsoft (and others). The
details will take care of themselves AFAIC -- discussion here of the
Knoppix solution being a case-in-point.
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe you are creating a stereotype, to say nothing of making a
sweeping generalisation. Granted there are a small minority who have
the attitude of: RTFM each and everytime a person asks a question (this is
<EM>very</EM> common in IRC rooms), but then most people are genuinely trying to help.
Again, I stress the importance of LUG's here as a means of "holding their
hands".
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
I disagree with the way you have phrased your sentence: "freeing the
planet from the thrall of Microsoft (and others)." Remember that
switching over is down to the individual choice, <EM>or</EM> to the choice of the
organisation/business/etc that a person may well work for. In the latter
case though, training ought to be given, but for the former, it is again
dependant on his/her needs from Linux.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
There are some people who I recommend should stick to using MS-Windows
based upon their requirements. My parents for example would really not get on
with Linux one bit, due to their needs, and still at this time, Linux does not
satisfy them.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
As a former long-time 'windows tips' reader and fairly experienced
political activist -- and small-time GNU/Linux advocate/user of some
years' experience (if not expertise) as well -- there is one thing that
is ABUNDANTLY clear to me: there is absolutely NO fundamental
contradiction between having a 'turn-key', 'idiot-proof' GNU/Linux
install over top of the preferred geek wet-dream OS we all desire.
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Thomas]
Are you saying that Linux is a source of sexual satisfaction? I also
completely refute your stereotype of "geek" (whatever you mean by that).
No OS is idiot-proof', since it all comes down to how <EM>you</EM> as a user of
the OS decide to manage it.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
We <EM>can</EM> have things both ways (when it comes to GNU/Linux, if not in
Life). Geeks who object to 'dumbing things down', (for whatever reasons)
are simply missing the Big (non-technical) Picture -- which does INDEED
matter in the long term.
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Thomas]
Which is what?
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
Many GNU/Linux users won't settle for Free
Software becoming yet another 'niche market'. Too many geeks have said
as much that they wouldn't mind/care about such a state of affairs. They
clearly do not understand that this attitude <EM>could</EM> (but I don't
believe <EM>would</EM>) lead to the downfall of Free Software. It certainly
doesn't help, and actually harms, IMO our 'Cause' [i.e. see my
postscript].
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Thomas]
We can perhaps thank RMS for his continual devotion to the FS cause here.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
I am looking forward to reading a forthcoming regular 'Windows
Defectors' column monthly in Linux Gazette.
;&gt;
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Thomas]
Assuming you would write one, but expect a lot of flame e-mails!
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR width="10%" align="center"><P><STRONG>
I am looking forward to reading a forthcoming regular 'Windows
Defectors' column monthly in Linux Gazette.
;&gt;
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Jimmy O'Regan]
I volunteered to write about Wingate (it's still on my todo list,
there's just one or two things I haven't gotten working the right way
yet), I still have to use Windows to browse the net (winmodem), and most
of the answers I've given have been on windows related subjects, so I
volunteer to write a column about windows stuff. Now, I'm not the most
confident person in the world, so (to the rest of the Answer Gang
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle"> is
there someone I can send draft articles to for constructive criticism?
To Jim/grok, are there any specific topics you think should be covered?
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
I had been thinking of starting with articles which showed how Windows
users could begin the transition by using free software under windows,
to lower the learning curve: cygwin, open office (.org), mozilla &amp;c. (I
also have a couple of short scripts and aliases to convert (<EM>really</EM>)
obscure windows file formats to something useful, though I might just
group a few and sent them as 2c tips).
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
The quickest idea I could roll off is an article about Cygwin; how the
standard tools are actually really useful, even if you can't just point
and click to use them
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle"> - I could roll a couple of the obscure file
formats into that, by way of demonstration (using awk for CSV etc)
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
I could probably do an introduction to Open Office from the MS Office
user's POV at the same time; provided I get enough time around my
parents (my mother is/was an ECDL instructor, my Dad had to train the
rest of the office staff at his last job), and having once been forced
to use ASP, I'm pretty interested in trying out Arrowhead and giving my
impressions.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
On a level which leans more towards my personal interests, I've got some
video editing to do in the next week, and I want to try out Ardour as a
home studio solution, and as a guitarist, I want to see if Songwrite
comes anywhere near GuitarPro as a way of representing tablature; but
since on the distro I'm forced to use (Mandrake bloody 9.0) both gcc and
python are broken, this may take a while.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Plus, the helicopter never came after the last time I volunteered
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
Some LG contributors seem to consistently miss the point as (for that
matter) do many GNU/Linux 'geeks': this isn't about what possible MS
defectors should or shouldn't be doing -- it's about what they <EM>will</EM>
do; and they WILL be staying away from GNU/Linux unnecessarily if they
anticipate the least complication in 'switching over' -- as is already
the case somewhat.
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Ben]
Och, that tired old refrain again. Why are you assuming that people are
"missing" something here? What if, after sober and careful
consideration, they have decided that the cons of doing what you ask for
outweigh the pros? I am among the Linux "geeks" that have done so; many
other people that I know are as well. Your assumption is poorly
considered and rather offensive.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
The original letter-writer has hit the nail on the head (again -- as
this is not the first time this has come up, by any means). 'Turn-key'
types need -- and should receive -- all the help and encouragement they
can possibly get to switch over. To quibble ahead of time over the
methodology or the feasibility or the desirability, even, of getting a
significant percentage of Windows users to 'defect' to us, is more about
confusing the <EM>politics</EM> of the matter with the <EM>mechanics</EM> of it all.
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Ben]
Answer me one simple question here, if you would. Who pays? Conversely,
who is it that owes the hundreds of thousands of hours of careful,
exacting, difficult labor necessary to "convert" (quoted due to many
unmerited assumptions behind the word) those would-be Wind0ws-to-Linux
'defectors'?
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
IMO 'geeks' seem to excel at being technically sophisticated about these
issues -- but politically naive in the extreme.
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Ben]
To put it plainly, you don't know what you're talking about. This myth
has been propagated for so long that even people who should know better
are affected by it - but a tiny bit of research would show you the cold,
hard truth in just moments. Take a look at Kuroshin, <A HREF="http://www.slashdot.org/">Slashdot</A>,
Linux.org, EFF.org, etc.; there are many, many highly politically-savvy
folks there if you look for them.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
It ain't rocket science
to understand that we simply are <EM>required</EM> to hold these people's hand
a bit in helping them over the hump, if we entertain any hopes of
freeing the planet from the thrall of Microsoft (and others).
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Ben]
Who are "we"? If you are willing to do the job - if you manage to hold
up for even a week of providing the level of support you're talking
about without any remuneration - kudos and my respects to you. I have no
doubt that LG would be more than happy to advertise your services.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Until you're willing to do this, please don't assume that you can co-opt
other people's services without any return. You don't own anyone else's
efforts. If we're speaking of extreme political naivete, it is exactly
this, often displayed by those who spend too much time in political bull
sessions and not enough time in the real world - people are <EM>not</EM> pawns,
their labor is <EM>not</EM> to be taken for granted.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
The
details will take care of themselves AFAIC -- discussion here of the
Knoppix solution being a case-in-point.
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Ben]
For those details to "take care of themselves", a fellow named Klaus
Knopper had to put in a few thousand hours (my best guess) of hard work.
I doubt that he'd appreciate his efforts being so dismissively
classified; I certainly don't.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
As a former long-time 'windows tips' reader and fairly experienced
political activist -- and small-time GNU/Linux advocate/user of some
years' experience (if not expertise) as well -- there is one thing that
is ABUNDANTLY clear to me: there is absolutely NO fundamental
contradiction between having a 'turn-key', 'idiot-proof' GNU/Linux
install over top of the preferred geek wet-dream OS we all desire.
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Ben]
As Thomas noted, I do not use OSes for my sexual satisfaction. Besides,
there's no such thing as idiot-proof; idiots are far too ingenuous. The
point that you're missing is that using a computer requires
intelligence, skill, and effort - and by its nature, always will. It's a
*tool*: one that, in this respect, is no different from, say, a lathe...
although a lathe is perhaps a little less <EM>physically</EM> forgiving. Idiots
will never use either one well.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Jason]
The only way we could have a "idiot-proof", "turn-key" would be for
someone other than the users to make choices for the users. Sounds kind
of like what a distribution does, doesn't it?
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><STRONG>
We
<EM>can</EM> have things both ways (when it comes to GNU/Linux, if not in
Life). Geeks who object to 'dumbing things down', (for whatever reasons)
are simply missing the Big (non-technical) Picture -- which does INDEED
matter in the long term.
</STRONG></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Ben]
The Big Picture, in your perception, being that the skilled and the
knowledgeable are the servants of the idiots and the clueless? Please...
try that somewhere else. I grew up under a political system that was
based on that premise (the former USSR); the current state of that
entity, and the amount of suffering it created in this world, should
give you a clue as to the success of that idea.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
[Jason]
You should read "In the Beginning was the Command Line", an essay by
Neal Stephenson. (I don't have a link handy: Google for it.) It's about
user interfaces, and how GUIs rely upon other people making choices for
you.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh yes, it's Linus Skywalker vs. the death star!
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":-)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay, this is going to harsh, but how will clueless Windows users help
free software? They can't code. Bug reporting takes a certian skill.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<blockquote><font color="red">That is highly inaccurate. Windows users' <EM>can</EM> write software, it is
just that they'll probably be used to a different language.
-- Thomas Adam</font></blockquote>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
How exactly is it that we can't live without these people?
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
But really, I wan't to see Linux popular as much as the next guy, but if
I have to do by making Linux look just like Windows, what's the point?
Distros such as Mandrake, IMHO, are doing a <EM>great</EM> job of providing
alternate configuration interfaces (ie, a GUI) and leveraging automatic
hardware detection.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<blockquote><font color="red">Mandrake and RedHat are trying to be too much like Windows, IMHO. The
whole point about Linux should be that it is another alternative from
using it...not: "How can we make Linux look more like Windows"
-- Thomas Adam</font></blockquote>
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Published in Issue 95 of <i>Linux Gazette</i>, October 2003
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