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<title>Office Linux -- Feedback LG #84</title>
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<SMALL>...<I>making Linux just a little more fun!</I></SMALL>
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<BIG><BIG><STRONG><FONT COLOR="maroon">Office Linux -- Feedback</FONT></STRONG></BIG></BIG>
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<BR>
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<STRONG>By <A HREF="../authors/arndt.html">Matthias Arndt</A></STRONG>
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<h3>Introduction</h3>
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<p>
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The following article is intended as a followup to the article
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<a href="../issue81/arndt.html">Office Linux: Ideas for a Desktop Distribution</a> in issue 81 of the Linux Gazette. If you wonder what this all is about, then I suggest reading that article.
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<p>
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I recieved a lot of feedback concerning that article. It was almost exclusively positive, although sometimes pointing into various
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directions. I want to let most of the mail speak for itself. At the end I will make just a few more statements concerning the idea.
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<h3>Whole lotta mail...</h3>
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<p>
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Some of my contacts preferred to stay anonymous so I decided to keep all my contacts anonymous. I stripped signatures, real names and email addresses out.
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<PRE>
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From: Linux Gazette Editor (Iron)
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To : Matthias Arndt
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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:36:56 -0700
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</PRE>
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<H4>Re: new article: Office Linux - ideas for a desktop distribution</H4>
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<PRE>
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On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 07:05:49PM +0200, Matthias Arndt wrote:
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> I attached a new article for the Linux Gazette.
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> I hope it fits.
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Formatted for August, preview attached.
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My opinions on Office Linux:
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** It can be done based on an existing distribution and packaging system.
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That would cut out most of the work, and sysadmins could get packages
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from the upstream distribution if they need a program not included in
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Office Linux.
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** You'd need to tighten up the profile of the target user. What does a
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"secretary" run? Office, web, e-mail and text editing.
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** "Secretaries" do not need a development environment -- they wouldn't know
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what to do with it.
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** Lots of offices will not be able to use a product like the above because
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they need one or two applications not in the base set. For instance, maybe
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a certain office needs the Gimp, etc. These people could get the packages
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from an upstream distribution, but wouldn't it be just as easy for them to
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install the upstream distribution itself?
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** Some distros (especially the "compile it yourself" ones like Rock Linux and
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a couple recent ones whose names escape me but are in the LWN distributions
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list {<A HREF="http://lwn.net/">lwn.net</A>}) have scripts to allow you to
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make custom CD-ROMs containing only a subset of the distribution, precompiled
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for quick installation on a number of systems. This might be a better way to
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build Office Linux.
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--
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Mike Orr, Editor, Linux Gazette SSC: publishers of Linux Journal
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</PRE>
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<HR NOSHADE>
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<PRE>
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From: Matthias Arndt
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To : Linux Gazette
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Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:18:51 +0200
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</PRE>
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<h4>Re: new article: Office Linux - ideas for a desktop distribution</H4>
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<PRE>
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Hi!
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article published fine! Thanks again!
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Linux Gazette wrote:
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| My opinions on Office Linux:
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| ** It can be done based on an existing distribution and packaging system.
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| That would cut out most of the work, and sysadmins could get packages
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| from the upstream distribution if they need a program not included in
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| Office Linux.
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Office Linux should be bootstrapped from an existing distribution. Just
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to make it easy to create.
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The Gimp was actually planned to be included. I do not wanted to leave
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all applications out but to distribute only a working subset and of
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course one programm per task.
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| ** You'd need to tighten up the profile of the target user. What does a
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| "secretary" run? Office, web, e-mail and text editing.
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Office Linux in the current draft state contains everything needed to
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achieve this.
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| ** "Secretaries" do not need a development environment -- they wouldn't know
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| what to do with it.
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Development packages should be optional for the sysadmin to compile some
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software. It is not meant to be installed by default.
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| ** Lots of offices will not be able to use a product like the above because
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| they need one or two applications not in the base set. For instance, maybe
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| a certain office needs the Gimp, etc. These people could get the packages
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| from an upstream distribution, but wouldn't it be just as easy for them to
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| install the upstream distribution itself?
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Office Linux is meant to make the installation easy and do everything in
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one go. Compatibility with another distribution will be included because
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the project would be bootstrapped from an existing distribution.
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The main arguments against a mainstream distribution are still:
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* too many packages installed by default
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* not enough tutorial documentation (even the Mandrake documentation is
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insufficient for Office Linux)
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* installation process too long - Office Linux is intended for "stick CD
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in and go"
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| ** Some distros (especially the "compile it yourself" ones like Rock Linux and
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| a couple recent ones whose names escape me but are in the LWN distributions
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| list {lwn.net}) have scripts to allow you to make custom CD-ROMs containing
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| only a subset of the distribution, precompiled for quick installation on a
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| number of systems. This might be a better way to build Office Linux.
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I leave it up to a development team to build the actual Office Linux.
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It is a draft, the article was "thinking out loud" in some respect.
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I recieved some mail regarding the article so I plan to write a little
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followup containing my correspondence. Due to time problems it will not
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be ready for the September issue.
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regards and thanks for publishing,
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Matthias
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</PRE>
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<HR NOSHADE>
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<PRE>
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To : Matthias Arndt
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From: +++++ +++++++++
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Date: 01 Aug 2002 14:18:55 +0200
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</PRE>
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<H4>Regarding "Office Linux: Ideas for a Desktop Distribution"</H4>
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<PRE>
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Hi Matthias
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I just read your article in the August 2002 issue of Linux Gazette, and
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all in all, I can say that the idea is very good. The main problem why
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we aren't switching to Linux yet in our company is that it would be a
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pain to administer the boxes after the installation. The current distros
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are very generic since they target general audience - they put in
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multiple office suites, browsers etc. so that everyone is satisfied.
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On the other side, I am not for Yet Another Linux Distro either. We
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already have enough distributions, and in each distro some thing is done
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differently than the others.
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IMHO, the situation can be solved by modifying the existing code base,
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either by the company/organization that releases the particular distro,
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or by user-side tweaking. In the first case, I imagine that it wouldn't
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be too hard for Redhat or SuSE to strip the current distro to one CD and
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implement the ideas you give in your article. But that depends on the
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demand of the market.
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We already have things like kickstart in Red Hat 7.x distros. You just
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need to customize the install process once (select the necessary
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packages, layout of partitions and so on), and than make a CD with the
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kickstart.cfg file and only the rpm's you're installing. The necessary
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post-install configurations can be done by an application which would be
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automatically run during the first boot, or so.
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All in all, it wouldn't be very hard to make an amateur distro based on
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your propositions. I am amazed that this hasn't been done yet.
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BTW, I am against putting KDE as the default desktop manager. I was
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using it for about one year at work, and that is enough to learn all its
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bugs, crashes and instabilites. I am dissapointed at what KDE has became
|
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- a bloated product full of bugs. Developers seem to be more interested
|
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in adding new features, than fixing the old ones. KDE has a long way to
|
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go to achieve the stability of even Windows XP. Mind you, I am not
|
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advocating another desktop/window manager since that will make me biased
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- but KDE would be a disaster for first-time users of Linux.
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Best regards,
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+++++ +++++++++
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P.S. I would be very interested in reading a follow-up article in the
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next Linux Gazette based on all the replies you got in the meantime.
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</PRE>
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<HR NOSHADE>
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<PRE>
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From: Matthias Arndt
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To : +++++ +++++++++
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Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:05:28 +0200
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</PRE>
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<H4>Re: Regarding "Office Linux: Ideas for a Desktop Distribution"</H4>
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<PRE>
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|
Hi,
|
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|
+++++ +++++++++ wrote:
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| Hi Matthias
|
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|
|
|
| I just read your article in the August 2002 issue of Linux Gazette, and
|
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| all in all, I can say that the idea is very good. The main problem why
|
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| we aren't switching to Linux yet in our company is that it would be a
|
|
| pain to administer the boxes after the installation. The current distros
|
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| are very generic since they target general audience - they put in
|
|
| multiple office suites, browsers etc. so that everyone is satisfied.
|
|
|
|
That is the point where Office Linux drops in. It is meant to fill this gap.
|
|
|
|
|
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| On the other side, I am not for Yet Another Linux Distro either. We
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| already have enough distributions, and in each distro some thing is done
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| differently than the others.
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|
Freedom of choice - that's why I personally would not opt against
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another distribution. I'm in general dissatisfied with most of the
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existing distributions but I currently do not have the time to create my
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own distribution. And thats's why I'm not planning to work on Office Linux.
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|
|
|
| IMHO, the situation can be solved by modifying the existing code base,
|
|
| either by the company/organization that releases the particular distro,
|
|
| or by user-side tweaking. In the first case, I imagine that it wouldn't
|
|
| be too hard for Redhat or SuSE to strip the current distro to one CD and
|
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| implement the ideas you give in your article. But that depends on the
|
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| demand of the market.
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|
I guess the big ones will not do something like that. Almost all of
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their work would not be used in Office Linux such as tons of
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documentation, packaging etc.
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Using an existing code base is, of course, the planned way to go with
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Office Linux.
|
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|
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| All in all, it wouldn't be very hard to make an amateur distro based on
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| your propositions. I am amazed that this hasn't been done yet.
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It's a matter of time and work. It is entirely possible.
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Gimme time and motivate me and I'll do it. But I do not have the time to
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do it.
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|
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| BTW, I am against putting KDE as the default desktop manager. I was
|
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| using it for about one year at work, and that is enough to learn all its
|
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| bugs, crashes and instabilites. I am dissapointed at what KDE has became
|
|
| - a bloated product full of bugs. Developers seem to be more interested
|
|
| in adding new features, than fixing the old ones. KDE has a long way to
|
|
| go to achieve the stability of even Windows XP. Mind you, I am not
|
|
| advocating another desktop/window manager since that will make me biased
|
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| - but KDE would be a disaster for first-time users of Linux.
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Personally I really hate KDE and I avoid to use it wherever possible.
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I leave it up to the final project team which desktop to use.
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Someone else suggested using qvwm which is much like M$ Windows.
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|
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| P.S. I would be very interested in reading a follow-up article in the
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| next Linux Gazette based on all the replies you got in the meantime.
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Yep as I recieved some more mail regarding that article I'm planning to
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publish my correspondence in November.
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cheers and thanks for your comment,
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Matthias
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</PRE>
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<HR>
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<PRE>
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From: +++
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To : Matthias Arndt
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Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 01:00:51 -0600
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</PRE>
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<H4>Your article in Linux Gazette #81 about Office Linux</H4>
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<PRE>
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Hi there,
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I just read your article, and think you have an excellent point.
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Is this something that you intend to pursue, or are you just "thinking
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out loud?" If this is something that you are looking at working on, I
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would love to test this out.
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I started using Linux in 92. I had no idea what it was, but it helped
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me pass a system admin class. I then stopped using it until recently.
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I came across your article while looking for details on how to best
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create my own distribution.
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I installed Red Hat 7.3 tonight, and it's just too darn big, with too
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darn much stuff included.
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So, again, if you are going to work on it, and would like another set of
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eyes to help out, please let me know. If you're not, but can direct me
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towards a group that is, I'd appreciate that as well.
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Best regards,
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|
+++
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</PRE>
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<HR NOSHADE>
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|
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<PRE>
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From: Matthias Arndt
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To : +++
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Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 15:55:52 +0200
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</PRE>
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<H4>Re: Your article in Linux Gazette #81 about Office Linux</H4>
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<PRE>
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Hello,
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|
+++ wrote:
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| Hi there,
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|
|
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| I just read your article, and think you have an excellent point.
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|
|
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| Is this something that you intend to pursue, or are you just "thinking
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| out loud?" If this is something that you are looking at working on, I
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| would love to test this out.
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|
|
Actually I'm currently just "thinking out loud". I do not have the time
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to start such a project.
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|
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| So, again, if you are going to work on it, and would like another set of
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| eyes to help out, please let me know. If you're not, but can direct me
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| towards a group that is, I'd appreciate that as well.
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As stated above I do not plan to work on it and I don't know about
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others that work on it.
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But I got some more mails regarding the article and some other guy
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wanted to help too. So I can only tell you the same:
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Start the project and make it happen :)
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|
regards and thanks for your comment,
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Matthias
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PS: I'm planning to publish all the correspondence concerning the
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article. So could you please tell me if you want want not to publish
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your mail.
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|
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</PRE>
|
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<HR NOSHADE>
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|
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<PRE>
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From: +++++++ +++++
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To : Matthias Arndt
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Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 18:25:42 -0700 (PDT)
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</PRE>
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<H4>Office Linux: Ideas for a Desktop Distribution</H4>
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<PRE>
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Matthias,
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Great idea! Please consider using Netscape because it
|
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includes email which can connect to AOL mail (a very
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big group).
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Please let me know if I can help.
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Thanks,
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+++++++ + +++++
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</PRE>
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<HR NOSHADE>
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<PRE>
|
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From: Matthias Arndt
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To : +++++++ +++++
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Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 15:50:16 +0200
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</PRE>
|
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<H4>Re: Office Linux: Ideas for a Desktop Distribution</H4>
|
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<PRE>
|
|
Hi,
|
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|
|
+++++++ +++++ wrote:
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| Matthias,
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|
|
|
| Great idea! Please consider using Netscape because it
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| includes email which can connect to AOL mail (a very
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| big group).
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The final choice of software is up to the group that actually works on
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the project.
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| Please let me know if I can help.
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Yes, start the project :)
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cheers and thanks for your comment,
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Matthias
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PS: I'm planning to publish all the mail concerning the article.
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Tell me please if you want me not to publish your mail
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</PRE>
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<HR NOSHADE>
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<PRE>
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From: +++++++ +++++
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To : Matthias Arndt
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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:48:28 -0700 (PDT)
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</PRE>
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<H4>Re: Office Linux: Ideas for a Desktop Distribution</H4>
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<PRE>
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|
Matthias,
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I am available to help. Just let me know where are we
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with this. Do we have a starting point.
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I work for AOL Time Warner have experience in Project
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management/ Documentation / Testing/ QA / Software
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Engineering. Have a BS/MBA.
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Thanks,
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+++++++
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PS. Please do not publish my name/email.
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</PRE>
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<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
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From: Matthias Arndt
|
|
To : +++++++ +++++
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Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:40:25 +0200
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</PRE>
|
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<H4>Re: Office Linux: Ideas for a Desktop Distribution</H4>
|
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<PRE>
|
|
Hi,
|
|
|
|
+++++++ +++++ wrote:
|
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| I am available to help. Just let me know where are we
|
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| with this. Do we have a starting point.
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I'm sorry, There is no starting point yet. The article was some sort of
|
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"thinking out loud", a draft.
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A project with dedicated goals has to be created. If you want to, go
|
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ahead. A little webpage with manifesto and a mailing list should be
|
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enough for the moment. I'm short of time so I'm currently not able to
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launch it myself.
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But tell me if you do because I got mails from other people who were
|
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interested in participating as well.
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|
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| PS. Please do not publish my name/email.
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|
Ok.
|
|
|
|
cheers,
|
|
Matthias
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: +++++ ++++
|
|
To : Matthias Arndt
|
|
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:10:44 +0200
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>Re: Office Linux: Ideas for a Desktop Distribution</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
Hi!
|
|
|
|
Hast du dir mal die Knoppix-CD angeguckt?
|
|
Du kannst ja mal mit Klaus Knopper ueber deine Ideen reden.
|
|
Er ist definitiv der Mann mit dem noetigen Know-How.
|
|
|
|
Tschuess
|
|
|
|
+++++
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<P>
|
|
This translates to:
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
Hi,
|
|
|
|
did you take a look at the Knoppix CD?
|
|
You could talk to Klaus Knopper concerning your ideas.
|
|
In any case he is the man with the required know-how.
|
|
|
|
cu,
|
|
+++++
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: ++++++ + +++++++
|
|
To : Matthias Arndt
|
|
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 14:22:20 -0400
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>Office Linux: Ideas for a Desktop Distribution</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
This is a very good idea. It's something I've been kicking around in
|
|
my head but never actually got collected into an idea. If you start
|
|
this as an actual project please let me know. I would like to help in
|
|
any way I can.
|
|
|
|
Thanks,
|
|
+++
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: ++++++ +++++++
|
|
To : Matthias Arndt
|
|
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 15:55:44 +0200
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>Office Linux</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
Matthias,
|
|
|
|
I have read your article on Office Linux. I like because it shows that I
|
|
am not the only one with this idea (although I haven't published anything
|
|
on it).
|
|
|
|
The main idea I had about this thing was to start from Debian, because
|
|
with the apt system it is possible to create one's own assembly of program
|
|
files. This could give a firm advantage because no new packages need to be
|
|
created, only a distribution based upon existing packages and new tasks.
|
|
|
|
Some remarks :
|
|
|
|
No servers :
|
|
I think that we probably need to run some line printer daemon. Be also
|
|
prepared to deploy this software in small companies where only one person
|
|
does all the paperwork. In this case, I think that also the optional
|
|
installation of fax server software should be possible. Besides, your
|
|
requirement of easy remote administration contradicts the requirement of
|
|
no servers.
|
|
|
|
Desktop environment
|
|
I have started testing qvwm, which gives more Win95 looks and is much
|
|
lighter than KDE. What is needed is a proper interface to add menu entries
|
|
and desktop icons. The desktop environment should also contain a good file
|
|
manager with DND capabilities. I am still searching for a good one. I do
|
|
not like MS, but their Explorer is still very good.
|
|
|
|
Office productivity
|
|
I think it is better to run a lightweight desktop environment with
|
|
OpenOffice.org, than KDE with OpenOffice.org. For most tasks,
|
|
OpenOffice.org can be run on a WS starting from 200 Mhz with 64 Mb of
|
|
memory. See servers : Office productivity is enhanced by means of an
|
|
integrated fax suite.
|
|
|
|
Internet
|
|
Provide possibilities to choose between modem and network card access
|
|
(ADSL/Cable). A wizard for diald for modem users is indispensable. Network
|
|
card access needs DHCP, kernel routing tables should reject anything that
|
|
is coming in which does not have its source on the machine itself.
|
|
|
|
Widget sets
|
|
Office Linux should also be able to offer third parties a nice and
|
|
flexible widget set to create add-ons and configuration tools. If KDE is
|
|
chosen, then this is no problem of course. If the choice goes to qvwm,
|
|
then I suggest to try to use GTK based tools.
|
|
|
|
Maybe I come back again on this topic, but for the moment I am busy
|
|
programming something to ease the interfacing of CGI scripts with a
|
|
permanent connection to postgreSQL, and I have to prepare a course of 9
|
|
times 4 hrs on Linux as a network OS.
|
|
|
|
Regards,
|
|
|
|
++++++ +++++++
|
|
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: Matthias Arndt
|
|
To : ++++++ +++++++
|
|
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 15:47:41 +0200
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>Re: Office Linux</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
Hi,
|
|
|
|
++++++ +++++++ wrote:
|
|
| I have read your article on Office Linux. I like because it shows that I
|
|
| am not the only one with this idea (although I haven't published
|
|
| anything on it).
|
|
|
|
That's nice to hear :)
|
|
|
|
| The main idea I had about this thing was to start from Debian, because
|
|
| with the apt system it is possible to create one's own assembly of
|
|
| program files. This could give a firm advantage because no new packages
|
|
| need to be created, only a distribution based upon existing packages and
|
|
| new tasks.
|
|
|
|
Actually I really thought about using an existing distribution.
|
|
But Debian has the problem that in most cases a current snapshot has
|
|
dependency problems with stable ones being hopeless out of date.
|
|
That's why I would prefer building a basic distribution from scratch.
|
|
But a stable and current snapshot of Debian could also be used as a
|
|
base. To make it easy to administrate, I would not include apt or any
|
|
other software of this sort into the final distribution. It makes the
|
|
thing to complicated except for net install.
|
|
Using Debian is nice idea anyway so I'd probably leave this topic for a
|
|
group that actually wants to launch this project.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Some remarks :
|
|
|
|
|
| No servers :
|
|
| I think that we probably need to run some line printer daemon. Be also
|
|
| prepared to deploy this software in small companies where only one
|
|
| person does all the paperwork. In this case, I think that also the
|
|
| optional installation of fax server software should be possible.
|
|
| Besides, your requirement of easy remote administration contradicts the
|
|
| requirement of no servers.
|
|
|
|
Ofcourse some sort of lpd has to be included. But I wanted to leave out:
|
|
Apache, ftpd, SQL, bind and all those other services that are installed
|
|
by default in almost all current distributions.
|
|
Fax is a nice idea too but it should be integrated into the printing system.
|
|
|
|
| Desktop environment
|
|
| I have started testing qvwm, which gives more Win95 looks and is much
|
|
| lighter than KDE. What is needed is a proper interface to add menu
|
|
| entries and desktop icons. The desktop environment should also contain a
|
|
| good file manager with DND capabilities. I am still searching for a good
|
|
| one. I do not like MS, but their Explorer is still very good.
|
|
|
|
qvwm looks very nice. Actually I personally would never use a desktop
|
|
that resembles M$ Windows so close but it woudl be a very nice
|
|
lightweight alternative to KDE.
|
|
|
|
| Office productivity
|
|
| I think it is better to run a lightweight desktop environment with
|
|
| OpenOffice.org, than KDE with OpenOffice.org. For most tasks,
|
|
| OpenOffice.org can be run on a WS starting from 200 Mhz with 64 Mb of
|
|
| memory. See servers : Office productivity is enhanced by means of an
|
|
| integrated fax suite.
|
|
|
|
I won't count on that. OpenOffice is slow on my Athlon 600 without KDE
|
|
running so I doubt it runs reasonably fast on a P200.
|
|
|
|
| Internet
|
|
| Provide possibilities to choose between modem and network card access
|
|
| (ADSL/Cable). A wizard for diald for modem users is indispensable.
|
|
| Network card access needs DHCP, kernel routing tables should reject
|
|
| anything that is coming in which does not have its source on the machine
|
|
| itself.
|
|
|
|
Office Linux is meant to integrate into an existing LAN. There is
|
|
absolutely no need for dialup networking in the distribution.
|
|
Firewalling should be done external. Office Linux is a pure workstation
|
|
distribution. All server services as firewalling, mail etc. should not
|
|
be handled by this distribution.
|
|
It could be an addon for home users but those are not the intended users
|
|
for the distribution.
|
|
|
|
| Widget sets
|
|
| Office Linux should also be able to offer third parties a nice and
|
|
| flexible widget set to create add-ons and configuration tools. If KDE is
|
|
| chosen, then this is no problem of course. If the choice goes to qvwm,
|
|
| then I suggest to try to use GTK based tools.
|
|
|
|
GTK is a must in any case.
|
|
|
|
thanks for your comments,
|
|
Matthias
|
|
|
|
PS: I'm planning to publish all the mail concerning the article in teh
|
|
future so tell me if you want me to leave your mail out.
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: ++++++ +++++++
|
|
To : Matthias Arndt
|
|
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:59:08 +0200
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>Re: Office Linux</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
Hello, Matthias,
|
|
|
|
Some extra remarks...
|
|
|
|
>| The main idea I had about this thing was to start from Debian, because
|
|
>| with the apt system it is possible to create one's own assembly of
|
|
>| program files. This could give a firm advantage because no new packages
|
|
>| need to be created, only a distribution based upon existing packages
|
|
and
|
|
>| new tasks.
|
|
|
|
>Actually I really thought about using an existing distribution.
|
|
>But Debian has the problem that in most cases a current snapshot has
|
|
>dependency problems with stable ones being hopeless out of date.
|
|
>That's why I would prefer building a basic distribution from scratch.
|
|
>But a stable and current snapshot of Debian could also be used as a
|
|
>base. To make it easy to administrate, I would not include apt or any
|
|
>other software of this sort into the final distribution. It makes the
|
|
>thing to complicated except for net install.
|
|
>Using Debian is nice idea anyway so I'd probably leave this topic for a
|
|
>group that actually wants to launch this project.
|
|
|
|
Since I almost work exclusively with Debian, I have the feeling that this is
|
|
the distribution which has probably all things in place to make an easy
|
|
distribution feasible. A graphical installer would be nice.
|
|
|
|
What seems the single most attractive feature for Windows users ? I think it is
|
|
the way the installation process works for new software (not the OS
|
|
installation process).
|
|
|
|
First, under the settings tab of the start button, you can choose to install or
|
|
remove additional software. If there is anything which Debian is good at, I
|
|
think it is this. By restricting the software to appear on the CD-ROM, and
|
|
maybe have a default simple choice, with the possibility of an extended choice,
|
|
under a graphical tool, people should be able to remove or install software
|
|
on/from their workstation with the same ease as under Windows.
|
|
|
|
Second, there is the autorun feature of software on CD-ROM's. I know that
|
|
Red Hat has this under KDE, but I haven't investigated this feature for
|
|
Debian (to do : auto mounting software).
|
|
|
|
Third, if someone installs new Windows software and things are missing, they
|
|
are prompted to insert their installation CD, Windows installs the necessary
|
|
base software, and the installation proceeds. If there is a distribution which
|
|
is able to mimic this behaviour, then it certainly is Debian. The way that the
|
|
Debian package management is conceived should make it easier for third-party
|
|
office packagers to say : package X depends on packages Y, Z,... for
|
|
installation, so that the installation system can invoke the above procedure.
|
|
If the installation has proceeded from an intranet, then the necessary
|
|
dependencies can even be automatically resolved, without bothering the user for
|
|
the installation CD.
|
|
|
|
Of course, some of these tasks need root access. The person who is responsible
|
|
for installation should at installation time be given the choice between the
|
|
following options :
|
|
- Only root may install new software, strictly controlled environment
|
|
- Some users may execute these tasks, but must know the right password
|
|
- Some users may execute these tasks without password
|
|
- Everybody may execute these tasks
|
|
|
|
As we all know, the biggest threats to a workstation are e-mails with dangerous
|
|
payloads which execute at open time and insecure web-sites which start
|
|
malicious scripts inside a browser. This means that the last two options are
|
|
inherently unsafe.
|
|
|
|
Javascript, Java and plug-ins can be easily sandboxed, so this threat is not so
|
|
large.
|
|
|
|
I do not know what the average user of PC's thinks if someone sends him such
|
|
mail, though. Personally, I think that running software from e-mail should be
|
|
prohibited. Maybe the running of suid-root software should never be allowed
|
|
without an explicit password, however easy the password may be. In that case,
|
|
it should be made impossible to automate the automatic entering of a password
|
|
in the dialog.
|
|
|
|
I think that the above paragraphs above show clear that this is issue is not
|
|
entirely clear. This should be studied carefully, and I think that it should be
|
|
explained clearly and understandably to users why auto-execution and the
|
|
transmission of executable content is a danger to the system.
|
|
|
|
>| Office productivity
|
|
>| I think it is better to run a lightweight desktop environment with
|
|
>| OpenOffice.org, than KDE with OpenOffice.org. For most tasks,
|
|
>| OpenOffice.org can be run on a WS starting from 200 Mhz with 64 Mb of
|
|
>| memory. See servers : Office productivity is enhanced by means of an
|
|
>| integrated fax suite.
|
|
|
|
>I won't count on that. OpenOffice is slow on my Athlon 600 without KDE
|
|
>running so I doubt it runs reasonably fast on a P200.
|
|
|
|
Why does everyone say that OpenOffice.org is slow ? To startup, yes. But
|
|
I have used it under Debian 2.2 on my 233 Mhz PII laptop with only 32 Mb
|
|
of RAM to create a course on Linux and presentations (no graphics w/ 32
|
|
Mb though), and I have never found it lacking in speed, even though
|
|
AutoCorrect is constantly on for me. My father uses the Windows version
|
|
on his Pentium 100 Mhz machine w/ 48 Mb and I have never heard him
|
|
complain about the speed, and the same goes for my wife on my old Cyrix
|
|
6x86 at 133 Mhz and 64 Mb of memory.
|
|
Regards,
|
|
|
|
++++++ +++++++
|
|
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: ++++ ++++
|
|
To : Matthias Arndt
|
|
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 15:56:39 -0500
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>Office Linux</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
Hello Matthias,
|
|
With regard to your Office Linux idea, I think you've got the right
|
|
idea. I would probably recommend Open Office, although Star Office 6.0 is
|
|
just as good, and is reasonably compatible with all MS Office products. I
|
|
custom build/rebuild machines for low income users, and since they don't
|
|
have much money, I either install Windows 98SE or Red Hat 7.3 with
|
|
OpenOffice so that they can read Word docs or Excel spreadsheets. Mozilla
|
|
1.0.x is my preferred browser, and works very nicely with the Sun Java JRE
|
|
1.4.0.x. Mozilla has the ability to "masquerade" as IE 5.0 to Web sites that
|
|
want to see IE, which is useful. I have actually seen a small call center
|
|
that had 40 workstations running SuSE 7.3 w/KDE 3.0, OpenOffice 1.0.x,
|
|
Netscape 6.2.x, and Ximian Evolution and the people who worked there that
|
|
had previously worked on Windows workstations had a very short transition
|
|
time to being productive under KDE. The 2 servers for the call center were
|
|
running HylaFax, sendmail, and some custom apps. The cost of all the
|
|
software was about 1/10th what it would have been under an all MS Windows
|
|
environment, and was all legally and properly licensed.
|
|
|
|
++++ ++++
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: ++++ ++++
|
|
To : Matthias Arndt
|
|
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 08:12:25 -0500
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>RE: Office Linux</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
Please feel free to publish my reply, but the only favor I ask is that you
|
|
remove my email address, so the spamatrons can't get it and flood my email
|
|
inbox.
|
|
|
|
-----Original Message-----
|
|
From: Matthias Arndt
|
|
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 08:30
|
|
To: ++++ ++++
|
|
Subject: Re: Office Linux
|
|
|
|
Hi,
|
|
|
|
++++ ++++ wrote:
|
|
| Hello Matthias,
|
|
| With regard to your Office Linux idea, I think you've got the right
|
|
| idea. I would probably recommend Open Office, although Star Office 6.0 is
|
|
|
|
Openoffice because: it's entirely free, cheap and as powerful as
|
|
StarOffice 6.0. (SO6 is based on OpenOffice)
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the rest of your comment.
|
|
I'm planning to publish all the replies I got regarding the article.
|
|
Tell if you don't want me to publish your mail.
|
|
|
|
regards,
|
|
Matthias
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: +++++++ ++++++++++
|
|
To : Matthias Arndt
|
|
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 12:26:15 +0200
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>Office Linux</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
Hallo Matthias
|
|
habe gerade deine Ausführungen in der Linuxgazette gelesen. Du triffst den
|
|
Nagel auf den Kopf! Wenn aus deinen Ideen mal ein Projekt wird, dann
|
|
wünsche ich schon jetzt alles Gute.
|
|
|
|
Bye +++
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<p>
|
|
This translates to:
|
|
</p>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
Hello Matthias,
|
|
|
|
I recently read your article in the Linux Gazette. You take the right approach.
|
|
If this project is ever going somewhere, I'll have best regards for it.
|
|
|
|
Bye +++
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: ++++++ +++++++++++++
|
|
To : Matthias Arndt
|
|
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:44:00 -0500
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>Re: Office Linux</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
Matthias,
|
|
|
|
What you are asking for in the Linux Gazette article "Ideas for a Desktop
|
|
Distribution" already exists. See <A HREF="http://www.lycoris.com/">www.lycoris.com</A> :-)
|
|
|
|
++++++
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: +++ +++++++
|
|
To : Matthias Arndt
|
|
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 17:21:34 +1000
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>Office Linux</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
I have just read your article in Linux Gazette and have to say that
|
|
attempts to govern Linux in this way is exactly what microdoze do with
|
|
their system. Surely maintaining the "dumb user" paradigm, maintains the
|
|
idea of a dumb user. Linux is an anarchistic system designed to promote
|
|
innovation. You won't get this by governing the choices of users.
|
|
Don't forget, microdoze created the idea of the dumb user. Before they
|
|
came along, Office workers had IQs in the 120 to 130 range and got paid
|
|
accordingly and advanced up the ladder.
|
|
Linux is a way out. Please don't microdoze it.
|
|
Thanks for a very readable article
|
|
Kind Regards
|
|
+++ +++++++
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: +++++++++ +++++
|
|
To : Matthias Arndt
|
|
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 15:29:21 -0300
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>Desktop Distribution</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
Dear Matthias,
|
|
I read the article you wrote for Linux Gazette about a Linux Desktop
|
|
Distribution and I think it's a great idea. Is there a mailing list where
|
|
you discuss the project? Even though I have very little time right now, I
|
|
would like to help. My name is +++++++++ and I'm from +++++++++. I'm
|
|
currently studying to be a Computer Analyst. Maybe me and some guys I study
|
|
with could help you.
|
|
Best regards,
|
|
|
|
+++++++++
|
|
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: ++++++
|
|
To : Matthias Arndt
|
|
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:24:21 +0100
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>Nice thoughts</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
HI
|
|
Liked your comments on the Linux gazette
|
|
This is what I am about to try build myself for small business's
|
|
Cheers
|
|
+++++
|
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+ + +++++
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</PRE>
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<HR NOSHADE>
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<PRE>
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From: +++++++ ++++++++++
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To : Matthias Arndt
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:30:51 +1200
|
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</PRE>
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<H4>Office Linux: Ideas for a Desktop Distro</H4>
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<PRE>
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|
Hello there Matthias,
|
|
|
|
After reading your article, well done by the way, It occurred to me that
|
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you have just summed up a distro call Lycoris. You can check it out at
|
|
www.lycoris.com there is a dot org aswell with a very strong community of
|
|
helpers. This distro is based on caldera and is a single CD install with
|
|
Koffice, Mozilla and KDE2. You should take a look.
|
|
|
|
Cheers
|
|
+++++++
|
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</PRE>
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|
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<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: ++++++ ++++++
|
|
To : Matthias Arndt
|
|
Date: 01 Sep 2002 14:03:23 -0500
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>office linux</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
What do you think of Lycoris? It may not come with oofice (I don't
|
|
remember), but it has all the other attributes. I have the original
|
|
version...have not tried the ver 2. I use mandrake 8.2 and suse 8.0,
|
|
due to my needs, but recommend lycoris to newbies.
|
|
++++ ++++++
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|
+++++++
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
From: ++++ ++++++++
|
|
To : Matthias Arndt
|
|
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 20:52:56 +0000
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
<H4>your article "Office Linux: Ideas for a Desktop Distribution"</H4>
|
|
<PRE>
|
|
Hi Matthias
|
|
|
|
Really loved your article about how to make a better desktop distro.
|
|
At work, I am the pilot Linux user (and the secretary you mentioned!) and yes,
|
|
it is a big help to my boss that my computer is never ever down for any reason.
|
|
|
|
I started with Mandrake but have since moved to RedHat - a move in the right
|
|
direction, but still not the ideal desktop distro. We have to trim it down a
|
|
lot, and add some other things, to make it fit the correct role for a desktop
|
|
user machine. So far, it's been most workable and user-friendly using
|
|
OpenOffice, KDE, Sylpheed, Opera, LPRng to talk to the network printers, GFTP
|
|
for moving files to/from the server, and Ericomm's PowerTerm to talk with the
|
|
server-based apps.
|
|
|
|
My workstation makes approx 5K documents per year .. I'm secretary to our VP of
|
|
sales/marketing plus assistant to about 1/4 of our managers .. the linux
|
|
station handles our mailing list and also plays print server for some of the
|
|
reporting functions .. and it's also used for a lot of spreadsheet reporting
|
|
for our sales numbers. It handles all this quite well .. it has never crashed
|
|
or had any unplanned downtime .. and our IT dep't is considering moving the
|
|
rest of the office to Linux next.
|
|
|
|
Clearly, the need is there for the desktop distro - and it's safe to say that
|
|
it's only a matter of time before the software gets there.
|
|
|
|
:)
|
|
++++
|
|
penguinista-at-large
|
|
</PRE>
|
|
|
|
<HR NOSHADE>
|
|
<!-------------------->
|
|
<p>
|
|
So far for the mail.
|
|
</p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<h3>Commenting the various ideas and thoughts</h3>
|
|
|
|
<ol>
|
|
|
|
<li>
|
|
<b>Thinkin' out loud</b>
|
|
<p>
|
|
As someone called it so, it is true. Office Linux is sharing my thoughts and
|
|
allowing others to comment on it. The article is not meant to be a business
|
|
idea. </li>
|
|
|
|
<li>
|
|
<b>Lycoris</b>
|
|
<p>
|
|
Several people told me that there already is something like Office Linux, in
|
|
the form of Lycoris. Actually I don't think that Lycoris is what I'm thinking
|
|
of. Lycoris is
|
|
<ul>
|
|
<li>not a real Linux in the sense of Linux security.
|
|
<li>too much like Microsoft OSes.
|
|
<li>not small.
|
|
<li>not trimmed for the intended purposes.
|
|
</ul>
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
My personal opinion is that Lycoris is the worst thing for the Linux community
|
|
ever. The same as Lindows. It is not a real Linux, it is an attempt to sell
|
|
Linux in M$ style without preserving the things, real friends and convinced
|
|
users of Linux do like most on their system.
|
|
<p>
|
|
<em>Office Linux should still be a Linux system in the well-known style
|
|
including security just with a trimmed package of included software.</em>
|
|
</li>
|
|
|
|
<li>
|
|
<b>Microsoftifying Linux</b>
|
|
<p>
|
|
As a few contacts told me, Office Linux would be a way of introducing M$
|
|
business practice into the Linux community.
|
|
<p>
|
|
Office Linux is not intended to do so. Office Linux should be a sub branch of
|
|
the whole Linux community. It should be another distribution of the Linux
|
|
operating system including many opensource applications and tools. Commercial
|
|
or not - Office Linux should stay a Linux, bootstraped from an existing
|
|
distribution of Linux, may it be Debian or Mandrake. The GNU General Public
|
|
Licence should be the main primer of Office Linux as well.
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
As stated above, Office Linux is not meant to be a product in the style of
|
|
Lycoris, Lindows or other distributions that are too much like Microsoft OSes.
|
|
</li>
|
|
|
|
<li>
|
|
<b>Dumb Users</b>
|
|
<P>
|
|
This is almost the same as the above one.
|
|
<p>
|
|
I don't think users in general are dumb. But actually most of ordinary computer
|
|
users are dumb compared to geeks and professionals.
|
|
<p>
|
|
Professionals, Linux Geeks and sysadmins are not the intended target group for
|
|
Office Linux. That group still is the average computer users that wants to have
|
|
his work done, like my father, some secretary or an english teacher at school.
|
|
These people just do not a need a custom tweakable Linux system but a stable
|
|
and proven system. The computer is tool not heaven for them and a tool in any
|
|
cases is supposed to work and to be easy to use.
|
|
<p>
|
|
And pointing to that group, I still think that current distributions are
|
|
worthless. Office Linux is supposed to fill that gap.
|
|
|
|
<li>
|
|
<b>Is there a project already running?</b>
|
|
<p>
|
|
A few contacts asked if Office Linux is an on-going project. Well, actually,
|
|
these both articles are the start. I wanted to share my ideas and thoughts
|
|
about it. As it seems, there's a least a small need for such a project. If
|
|
anyone volunteers to start an Office Linux Project, I'll be very grateful.
|
|
Start it, go ahead, make it happen. I personally can't do much for it at the
|
|
moment.
|
|
<p>
|
|
I did one thing for it as it was a simple act. A mailing list concerning Office
|
|
Linux, the idea and the project is ready.
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
The address of the list is <b>officelinux@freelists.org</b>.
|
|
|
|
<ul>
|
|
<li>To subscribe:
|
|
<p>
|
|
Users can subscribe to the list by sending email to <b>officelinux-request@freelists.org</b> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field
|
|
|
|
<li>To unsubscribe:
|
|
<p>
|
|
Users can unsubscribe from the list by sending email to <b>officelinux-request@freelists.org</b> with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
|
|
|
|
<li>To post:
|
|
<p>
|
|
Users can post to the list by subscribing to the list and then sending email to <b>officelinux@freelists.org</b>.
|
|
</ul>
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
Anyone who is interested in the idea of Office Linux should join and let's see.
|
|
|
|
</li>
|
|
|
|
</ol>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
<!-- *** BEGIN copyright *** -->
|
|
<hr>
|
|
<CENTER><SMALL><STRONG>
|
|
Copyright © 2002, Matthias Arndt.
|
|
Copying license <A HREF="../copying.html">http://www.linuxgazette.com/copying.html</A><BR>
|
|
Published in Issue 84 of <i>Linux Gazette</i>, November 2002
|
|
</STRONG></SMALL></CENTER>
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