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The Mailbag</A></H1> <BR>
<!-- BEGIN wanted -->
</center>
<P> <hr> <P>
<!-- =================================================================== -->
<center><H3><font color="maroon">HELP WANTED : Article Ideas</font></H3></center>
<P>
<P> Send tech-support questions, Tips, answers and article ideas to The Answer Gang
&lt;<A HREF="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com"
>linux-questions-only@ssc.com</A>&gt;. Other mail (including
questions or comments about the <EM>Gazette</EM> itself) should go to
&lt;<A HREF="mailto:gazette@ssc.com">gazette@ssc.com</A>&gt;. All material
sent to either of these addresses will be considered for publication in the
next issue. <EM>Please send answers to the original querent too, so that s/he
can get the answer without waiting for the next issue.</EM>
<P> Unanswered questions might appear here. Questions with
answers--or answers only--appear in The Answer Gang, 2-Cent Tips, or here,
depending on their content. There is no guarantee that questions will
<em>ever</em> be answered, especially if not related to Linux.
<P> <STRONG>Before asking a question, please check the
<A HREF="../faq/index.html"><I>Linux Gazette</I> FAQ</A> (for questions about the
Gazette) or <A HREF="../tag/kb.html">The Answer Gang Knowledge Base</A> (for
questions about Linux) to see if it has been
answered there.</STRONG>
<P> <HR> <P>
<!--====================================================================-->
<!-- BEGIN HELP WANTED : Article Ideas -->
<UL>
<!-- index_text begins -->
<li><A HREF="#wanted/1"
><strong>LG 73, 2c Tips #12, USB Modems.</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#wanted/2"
><strong>xt (xtraceroute)</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#wanted/3"
><strong>Euro symbol available?</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#wanted/4"
><strong>DHCP & MAC Addresses question</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#wanted/5"
><strong>Convex</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#wanted/6"
><strong>Boot problem on software raid</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#wanted/7"
><strong>System crash on RH 7.2 - could be related to N.P.Strickland's problem</strong></a>
<!-- index_text ends -->
</UL>
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<P> <A NAME="wanted/1"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">LG 73, 2c Tips #12, USB Modems.</FONT></H3>
Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:36:35 -0600
<BR>tomkrieger (<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com?cc=tomkrieger@yahoo.com&subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2076%5D%20help%20wanted%20%231%20USB%20Modems">tomkrieger from yahoo.com</a>)
<P>
I am writing reguarding the Alcatel Speed Touch USB modem, under Linux,
particularly Mandrake Linux 8.1.
</P>
<P>
I have been trying to get this modem to work for about a month now. It
seems I almost have it, at least compared to where I was a couple of
weeks ago. I have been following the HowTo's, I've found on the
internet. They seem to differ slightly from web page to web page, but I
believe I finally got the kernel and the drivers set up to work, but I
think I might have some setting messed up somewhere, or maybe a module
not loaded or something. I was hoping you might be able to help me find
where I'm having a problem. The message I get when I try to connect
with br2684ctl -b -c 0 -a 0.0.35 is something like
</P>
<blockquote><pre>RFC1483/2684 bridge : Created nas0 interface
</pre></blockquote>
<P>
(something like that)
</P>
<blockquote><pre>RFC1483/2684 bridge : Connecting to ATM 0.0.35 Encapsulation LLC
</pre></blockquote>
<P>
(again it says something like this)
</P>
<blockquote><pre>RFC1483/2684 bridge : fatal : failed to connect on socket
</pre></blockquote>
<P>
(here's the error message I get exactly as given to me)
</P>
<P>
Is there anything you might be able to tell me from the informatoin
given, what I should be looking at to correct my problem? If you need
anymore info please let me know what it is and I will get it right to
you.
</P>
<P>
Thanks
<br>Tom
</P>
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<P> <A NAME="wanted/2"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">xt (xtraceroute)</FONT></H3>
Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:01:32 -0800
<BR>Mike Orr (<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com?cc=rory@ssc.com&subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2076%5D%20help%20wanted%20%232%20xtraceroute"><i>LG</i> Editor</a>)
<P>
There's a program in <A HREF="http://www.debian.org/">Debian</A> unstable called xt (xtraceroute).
It's supposed to plot the traceroute path on a picture of the
earth. However, it doesn't seem to have enough location
coordinates in its database to do anything. Has anybody used
this program? Did you have to enter your own coordinates for
all the hosts you traceroute from and to?
</P>
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<P> <A NAME="wanted/3"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">Euro symbol available?</FONT></H3>
Sat, 2 Feb 2002 17:05:10 -0000
<BR>Donal Rogers (<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com?cc=rogers@clubi.ie&subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2076%5D%20help%20wanted%20%233%20Euro">rogers from clubi.ie</a>)
<P>
Hi guys,
I don't know how much this will matter to the non-Europeans in the audience,
but how am I going to get the Euro symbol to appear in my favourite
applications? I have just installed <A HREF="http://www.redhat.com/">Red Hat</A> 7.2 on my laptop, and would like
to indicate my preferred currency symbol in a spreadsheet or word processor
document. The only mention I can find in previous issues of LG (wonderful
publication - keep up the great work!), apart from a <A HREF="http://www.debian.org/">Debian</A> Euro-HOWTO, is
the usual "just my .02 Euro". Does anyone have any ideas?
</P>
<P>
Regards,
<br>Donal.
</P>
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<P> <A NAME="wanted/4"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">DHCP & MAC Addresses question</FONT></H3>
Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:54:04 -0800
<BR>Dave Wulkan (<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com?cc=dwulkan@earthlink.net&subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2076%5D%20help%20wanted%20%234%20DHCP">dwulkan from earthlink.net</a>)
<P>
Hi,
</P>
<P>
I've read where DHCP can return a fixed IP for specified MAC hardware
addresses. My question is can DHCP be limited to return either fixed or
dynamic IP to only a list of MAC hardware addresses? This would be a
security enhancement as only specified machines could get access to the
server?
</P>
<P>
Dave Wulkan
</P>
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<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">Convex</FONT></H3>
Wed, 6 Feb 2002 02:44:22 +0100
<BR>Robos (<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com?cc=robos@geekmail.de&subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2076%5D%20help%20wanted%20%235%20Convex">robos from geekmail.de</a>)
<P>
Hi Gang!
Some time ago a friend of mine took me to a guy that - via some
strange ways - had gotten hold of some convex computers (2
refrigerator-sized boxes). They were struggeling to get them to boot
again (I think they called the OS spp-ux os something similar) and
maybe in the end getting them to boot linux (hey, not totally OT). So,
short question: does somebody of you know these beasts? If yes, I can
figure out more about'em, otherwise forget them (saw something like a
VAXbar some time ago, maybe that'll be their new purpose real soon
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=";-)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">.
</P>
<P>
TIA
<br>Robos
</P>
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<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">Boot problem on software raid</FONT></H3>
Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:17:28 -0500
<BR>Joe St.Clair (<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com?cc=ksimach@ksimachine.com&subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2076%5D%20help%20wanted%20%236%20software%20raid">ksimach from ksimachine.com</a>)
<P>
I am running RedHat 7.2 and using ext3 file system with software raid,
using 2 20gig drives. The raid drive(s) are my boot drive. The 2
drives are identical and are used something like this <TT>/dev/hda1</TT> = ext3,
<TT>/dev/hdb1</TT> = ext3. I made everything between the 2 drives the same. The
mirrored drive is <TT>/dev/hda1</TT> and <TT>/dev/hda2</TT> = <TT>/dev/md0.</TT> The system has
been running very well.
</P>
<P>
I recently did a kernel upgrade. The upgrade went ok and will boot and
run from a floppy drive with no problems. But if I attempt to boot from
the hard drive(s) drive it will only boot the old kernel. I have
updated the grub.conf and have even attempted to enter the commands for
booting from the command line. The grub menu never shows the commands
entered into the grub.conf file and I receive a error "Can't find files"
if I attempt to enter the command line.
</P>
<P>
I have attempted to find what I need to change/fix but have not found
the information needed to update grub while booting from a raid/ext3
file system.
</P>
<P>
Anyone have any ideas?
</P>
<P>
Thanks,
<br>Joseph St.Clair
</P>
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<P> <A NAME="wanted/7"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">System crash on RH 7.2 - could be related to N.P.Strickland's problem</FONT></H3>
Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:10:15 +1100
<BR>icalla (<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com?cc=icalla@bigpond.net.au&subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2076%5D%20help%20wanted%20%237%20lockups%20after%20upgrade">icalla from bigpond.net.au</a>)
<P>
Hi Gang,
</P>
<P>
I recently upgraded from RedHat 6.2 to 7.2. Since then I have
experienced a number of incidents where the system simply froze up
solid. It would not respond to keyboard input or mouse clicks. Screen
was not being updated at all. The only way out was the Reset button.
This sounds similar to the problems reported by N.P.Strickland
(<A HREF="../issue74/tag/9.html"
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue74/tag/9.html</A>), but I can relate my
incidents to some things which infer that the solutions suggested to
that post will not resolve my situation.
</P>
<P>
Firstly, this has only started happening since I upgraded. I never
experienced anything similar on RH 6.2 (or 5.2 fot that matter). The
hardware is unchanged, so I believe it must be caused by software, not
hardware.
</P>
<P>
Secondly, I am pretty confident that it is related somehow to sound. I
can bring on a freeze by running a number of multimedia programs (e.g.
XMMS, gtv). They appear to work fine for, say, 30 seconds, then Zap! the
system freezes up solid.
</P>
<P>
Can anyone shed any more light?
</P>
<P>
Thanks
<br>Ian Callahan
</P>
<!-- end 7 -->
<a name="mailbag"></a>
<P> <hr> <P>
<!-- =================================================================== -->
<center><H3><font color="maroon">GENERAL MAIL</font></H3></center>
<P> <HR> <P>
<!--====================================================================-->
<!-- BEGIN GENERAL MAIL -->
<UL>
<!-- index_text begins -->
<li><A HREF="#mailbag/1"
><strong>Windows Telnet Client for Linux</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#mailbag/2"
><strong>installing software from source</strong></a>
<!-- index_text ends -->
</UL>
<!-- .~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~. -->
<P> <A NAME="mailbag/1"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">Windows Telnet Client for Linux</FONT></H3>
Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:49:23 -0800
<BR>Mike Orr (<a href="mailto:gazette@ssc.com?subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2076%5D%20mailbag%20%231%20cybercoffee%20shop"><i>LG</i> Editor</a>)
<br>replying to Jay Ashworth (The Answer Gang)
<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM>
Not if you're at the only cybercafe in town and they don't let you
install software there,
</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Educate, advocate.
</STRONG></P>
<P>
The only reason I'd be in a cybercafe is if I'm in a strange town and there
are no other Internet options. So I don't have much opportunity to find the
most receptive staff members and spring a World Domination campaign on them.
</P>
<P><STRONG>
There <EM>has</EM> to be at least one geek there...
</STRONG></P>
<P>
You must have forgotten the smiley.
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle"> That must be a joke, because in most
of the cybercafes I've been in, the staff know a lot about espresso and chai,
but very little about their own computers. The only two exceptions were the
Speakeasy in Seattle and CoffeeNet in San Francisco, neither of which
exist any more.
</P>
<!-- end 1 -->
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<P> <A NAME="mailbag/2"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">installing software from source</FONT></H3>
Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:01:01 -0500
<BR>Adam York (<a href="mailto:gazette@ssc.com?subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2076%5D%20mailbag%20%232%20make%20install">Anonymous</a>)
<P>
Ben,
</P>
<P>
Since I'm a relative linux newbie and software installation has been
learning process, I appreciatee your article on installing from source.
One question though. After downloading and uncompressing the source,
installation seems to be pretty much a three step process.
</P>
<Pre>
./configure
make
make install
</Pre>
<P>
My question is this: should I become root in this process and if so at
what stage? I'm thinking that I should become root after "make." and
not before.
</P>
<P>
Anyway I appreciated the article especially the part about analyzing a
failed install. It would have taken me a while to figure that out on my
own.
</P>
<P>
Thanks,
<br>Adam York
</P>
<!-- end 2 -->
<a name="gaz"></a>
<P> <hr> <P>
<!-- =================================================================== -->
<center><H3><font color="maroon">GAZETTE MATTERS</font></H3></center>
<P> <HR> <P>
<!--====================================================================-->
<!-- BEGIN GAZETTE MATTERS -->
<UL>
<!-- index_text begins -->
<li><A HREF="#gaz/1"
><strong>TAG members</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#gaz/2"
><strong>Confidential disclaimers</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#gaz/3"
><strong>HOWTO subscribe to <i>Linux Gazette</i></strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#gaz/4"
><strong>All your wonderful tips...</strong></a>
<li><A HREF="#gaz/5"
></a>feedback --or--
<br><A HREF="#gaz/5"
><strong>Why we stay plain when we could look Really Cool</strong></a>
<!-- index_text ends -->
</UL>
<!-- .~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~. -->
<P> <A NAME="gaz/1"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">TAG members</FONT></H3>
Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:26:40 -0800
<BR>Mike Orr (<a href="mailto:gazette@ssc.com?subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2075%5D%20gazette%20matters%20%231%20welcome%20gang"><i>LG</i> Editor</a>)
<BR>linux-questions-only (linux-questions-only@ssc.com)
<P>
By the way, TAG now has thirty members, an increase of about eight from a couple
months ago. Welcome, new Gang members, and thanks for your contributions.
</P>
<P>
If you haven't sent in your TAG bio yet or you need to revise it, send it to
<A HREF="mailto:gazette@ssc.com"
>gazette@ssc.com</A>. See
</P>
<P><a href="tag/bios.html">"Meet The Answer Gang"</a>
to read about your peers and see some example bios.
</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE><EM>
[28-Feb: Somehow it doubled in eight days. There are now
sixty TAG members. -Iron.]
</EM></BLOCKQUOTE>
<!-- end 1 -->
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<P> <A NAME="gaz/2"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">Confidential disclaimers</FONT></H3>
Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:56:08 -0800
<BR>Mike Orr (<a href="mailto:gazette@ssc.com?subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2075%5D%20gazette%20matters%20%232"><i>LG</i> Editor</a>)
<P><STRONG>
In the section on confidentiality disclaimers in the TAG faq, can
we provide some examples of what we need the querent to say?
</STRONG></P>
<P>
Provided, in
<a href="tag/ask-the-gang.html#privacy">"Ask The Gang"</a> -- Heather
</P>
<!-- end 2 -->
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<P> <A NAME="gaz/3"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">HOWTO subscribe to <em>Linux Gazette</em></FONT></H3>
Sun, 20 Jan 2002 09:20:05 -0800
<BR>multiple readers (<a href="mailto:gazette@ssc.com?subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2075%5D%20gazette%20matters%20%233%20subscribe">shown below</a>)
<P>
We've had a number of questions on this topic lately...
</P>
<!-- sig -->
<p><em>D Johnson</em></p>
<P><STRONG>
I always enjoy reading the Gazette offline (maybe even at the beach on my
notebook). Have you ever considered providing it in pdf format. Would save
me the trouble of converting it myself. Imagine lotsa others do too.
Keep up the good work.
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">Thanks for the support.
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<HR width="10%" align="center">
<!-- sig -->
<p><em>P Reddy</em></p>
<P><STRONG>
i am a student from india , i want to know wether there is a mailing news
letter available, if yes how to subscribe.
please reply at...
</STRONG></P>
<HR width="10%" align="center">
<!-- sig -->
<p><em>Martin Willem</em></p>
<P><STRONG>
I'm making the jump into the linux world. Do you offer the GAZETTE in hard
copy form?
</STRONG></P>
<HR width="10%" align="center">
<blockquote><font color="#000066">To all these people and everyone else out there wondering: ...
</font></blockquote>
<P><DL><DT>
There is no subscription. Read it online:
<DD><A HREF=".."
>http://www.linuxgazette.com</A>
</DL></P>
<P>
Paper?
</P>
<blockquote>
It's under an open license. Anybody has the right to publish
it that way. <EM>We</EM> can't afford to do all that for free though.
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
If anybody chooses to convert it to paper form <EM>regularly</EM> ...
and maintain that as a longterm service ... could you please
let us know? We could add you to the Mirrors page
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
</blockquote>
<P>
Other electronic formats?
See <A HREF="../faq.html#formats_no"
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/faq.html#formats_no</A>
</P>
<blockquote>
You can be <EM>notified</EM> that the new one has been posted each month, by
subscribing to the announce list (it does <EM>not</EM> contain the articles):
<A HREF="http://www.ssc.com/mailman/listinfo/lg-announce"
>http://www.ssc.com/mailman/listinfo/lg-announce</A>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
You might be able to use services (elsewhere!) which let you know websites
have changed (by emailing you the changed page) to give you the table of
contents ONLY, by telling them to keep an eye on:
<A HREF="../current/"
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/current/</A>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
One example of such an external service is Sitescooper - PDA users can get
the document this way, as can others who install the Sitescooper scripts:
<A HREF="http://scoops.sitescooper.org"
>http://scoops.sitescooper.org</A>
</blockquote>
<p>So much work to get it so I was hoping...</p>
<blockquote>
Our webzine is quite large so it's well worth your time to find an <EM>LG</EM>
mirror site that's closer to your home in cyberspace:
<A HREF="../mirrors.html"
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/mirrors.html</A>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
You can also download the FTP files, or find it in the <A HREF="http://www.debian.org/">Debian</A> distribution.
Read more about all this at the Linux Gazette FAQ:
<A HREF="../faq.html"
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/faq.html</A>
</blockquote>
<HR width="10%" align="center">
<blockquote><font color="#000066">However Martin had more to ask so we
answered that too
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
<P><STRONG>
Do you offer recommendations on the most successful ways to jump
from microsoft to LINUX? Any help that can save me pain would be greatly
appreciated i.e. hardware, linux flavor, good books for the beginner to read
before/during the move to lynux!
</STRONG></P>
<P>
That's a very general question, so I can offer only a general answer.
Look in The Answer Gang Knowledge Base:
<A HREF="../tag/kb.html"
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/tag/kb.html</A>
especially under the sections "Linux Distributions", "Before you install Linux",
"Installing Linux", etc. Also see the section "Linux tech support questions"
question "How can I get help on Linux?", which has a list of books and a link
to the <A HREF="http://www.linuxdoc.org/">Linux Documentation Project</A> (LDP) (Linux Documentation Project), which should be your first stop.
</P>
<P>
-- Mike
</P>
<!-- end 3 -->
<!-- .~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~. -->
<P> <A NAME="gaz/4"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">All your wonderful tips...</FONT></H3>
Sun, 23 Dec 2001 00:57:55 -0500
<BR>Robos (<a href="mailto:gazette@ssc.com?subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2075%5D%20gazette%20matters%20%234">robos from muon.de</a>)
<!-- sig -->
<P><STRONG>
Hi Gang!
Just had some time and took a look into the howto section at
linuxdoc.org and found the Tips-HOWTO.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Nice thingies in there, although the last editing seems to be ages
ago.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Soooo, since LG is already present in there and you have such
wonderful ideas, scripts and perl-thingies (Ben?), after you have
discussed them here in the list and optimized them one could post it
to the maintainer of the Tips-HOWTO for inclusion.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
What do you think? Thats a place a newbie finds rather easier than
this mailing-list, don't you think?
Just a suggestion.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
CU Robos
</STRONG></P>
<P>
&lt;grin&gt; Good idea, Robos. Instead of the Tips-HOWTO, however, the areas
you're asking about are a subset of the LG Knowledge Base that
Chris Gianakopoulos and I have been working on for the past month plus;
see &lt;<A HREF="../kb-faq.html&gt"
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/kb-faq.html&gt</A>;. Better yet, wait
a week or
so and see the new version - Chris has been doing a sterling job of adding
the stuff from the previous issues of LG while I'm banging away on
modifying the overall KB-FAQ, TAG-FAQ, etc. The difference between the last
month and the one that's coming up is going to be a large one - there are
many, many more articles/issues incorporated into it than there were the
last time - and it's really turning into a great resource. -- Ben
</P>
<!-- end 4 -->
<!-- .~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~.~~. -->
<P> <A NAME="gaz/5"><HR WIDTH="75%" ALIGN="center"></A> <P>
<H3><IMG ALIGN=BOTTOM ALT="" SRC="../gx/envelope.gif">
<FONT COLOR="navy">Why we stay plain when we could look Really Cool</FONT></H3>
Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:21:53 +1100
<BR>Leon Czechowicz (<a href="mailto:gazette@ssc.com?subject=%20Re%3A%20%5BLG%2075%5D%20gazette%20matters%20%235">Leon.Czechowicz from anu.edu.au</a>)
<!-- sig -->
<!-- ::
Why we stay plain when we could look Really Cool
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:: -->
<P>
Hey!
</P>
<P>
Nice to see your online mag - content seems good!
</P>
<P>
...pity I was about as excited about the presentation of your "mag" as I
am about brussel sprouts!
</P>
<P>
Check out <A HREF="http://www.onlamp.com"
>http://www.onlamp.com</A> for an example of what to make it look
like - I know in essence its the same, but I'd love to see some Linux
heads make something that actually looks good! (ie stop acting like
text crazed command line geeks and get with us poxy graphical idiots,
who have been web building with Macromedia products and the like)
</P>
<P>
Yes that means you will actually have to stop using Lynx and start using
Mozilla to check the visual integrity of your code!
</P>
<P>
I'm not really bagging, just sick of not being excited when I hit a
linux site.
</P>
<P>
cheers,
L
</P>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Oh my. This resulted in a lively discussion defending
<a href="#brussel">Brussel sprouts</a>,
our decision process in making the webzine
<a href="#style">rather more plain than all-dancing-and-glitzy</a>,
some comments about
<a href="#check">the browsers we actually use</a>,
thoughts on
<a href="#flash">Macromedia Flash</a>,
a certain amount of
<a href="#grump">curmudgeonly eyebrow raising</a>,
cheerful
<a href="#thanks">thanks</a>
for the kudos that were present, and
<a href="#goforit">encouragement</a>
to take on the glitzy task himself. Pleasantly he took it
<a href="#goodsport">all in good stride</a>
and will probably join the Answer Gang
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
<HR width="10%" align="center">
<h4><a name="thanks">KUDOS</a>
</h4>
<P><STRONG>
Nice to see your online mag - content seems good!
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Thanks, always happy to hear it.
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">Thanks for writing in. If you like the content, well, that's our goal.
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<HR width="10%" align="center">
<h4>
<a name="brussel"
>BRUSSEL SPROUTS</a>
</h4>
<P><STRONG>
...pity I was about as excited about the presentation of your "mag" as I
am about brussel sprouts!
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">I <EM>like</EM> brussel sprouts, when prepared properly and covered with butter
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
Oh, you mean the boiled-grey kind, perhaps ...
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">I can force myself to eat brussel sprouts and broccoli. But I
draw the line at cauliflower.
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">I'll trade you: you can have my brussel sprouts, and I'll have the
cauliflower. It's good to have friends.
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
-- Ben</font></blockquote>
<HR width="10%" align="center">
<h4>
<a name="grump"
>CURMUDGEONS, THAT'S US</a>
</h4>
<P><STRONG>
...pity I was about as excited about the presentation of your "mag" as I
am about brussel sprouts!
</STRONG></P>
<font color="#003F00">
<blockquote>
The Answer Guy, enjoying yet another
Python book (in this case New Riders' "Python Web Programming" -- slow since
it aims at non-programmers, but quite good nontheless) at a local coffee shop,
was heard to mutter:
</blockquote>
<blockquote><blockquote>"Bon Apetit mon ami, enjoy your sprouts"
</blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote>before taking another sip of his latte. -- Jim</blockquote>
</font>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">Hey, nice layout on your e-mail!
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">...too bad the content had me yawning.
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">So you've got your MacroWhozits, ShockWhatsits, and RealWhatchamacallits
running. Booo-ring. I can get more and better flash and glitter at the
99-cent store. Incidentally, I find the layout of the site that you've
mentioned just as garbaged up as that of Slashdot - it requires a 21"
screen just to see properly, and the "noisiness" of unrelated multi-column
layout, with 2-3 words per column (hey, you've got to make room for all
those ads - right?) is something that I find really unpleasant to read.
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">Look. Our strength is that we are accessible to _everyone._ Not everybody
in the world has a cable modem, or even a fast phone connection; a number
of our readers are still using 33.6 modems attached to their 486s, and a
fair number of them are still paying for content "by the byte". I'm using a
CDPD modem (I live on a sailboat) to connect, myself. Should we all be
denied access, or should it be made more difficult or expensive because our
layout doesn't reflect somebody's idea of the Latest And Greatest fashion
in web pages? Please, let's not even go there.
-- Ben</font></blockquote>
<P><STRONG>
I'm not really bagging, just sick of not being excited when I hit a
linux site.
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">&lt;snort&gt; I'll make you a deal: we'll tell you how to dress and how to
present yourself in general (anybody here have some orange lipstick and a
flourescent pink purse?), and you'll be welcome to present us with your
idea of an "up-to-date" site that excites you. That sound good to you?
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">Thought so.
-- Ben</font></blockquote>
<HR width="10%" align="center">
<h4>
<a name="style"
>ALL GLITZ, WE'RE NOT</a>
</h4>
<P><STRONG>
Check out <A HREF="http://www.onlamp.com"
>http://www.onlamp.com</A> for an example of what to make it look
like -
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">It looks nice.
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">(For the readers: ONlamp is an O'Reilly Network site.)
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Are you <EM>with</EM> O'Reilly? They are a big publishing house and hire people
to maintain their websites. We are a batch of volunteers scattered all
over the world. But we're flattered that you chose to compare us with them.
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">(it turns out, no, he's not; he just feels their site looks cool.)
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">To be fair, though, I tried to visit that site with Netscape. I only got
an ad -- no content! Ouchie!
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Luckily we only put these itty bitty graphics at the side and logos on top.
Since we don't do animated banners you can't get hit with the won't-finish
bug in some browsers either
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
<P><STRONG>
I know in essence its the same, but I'd love to see some Linux
heads make something that actually looks good!
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">Go to
<a href="http://www.linux.com/">linux.com</a>. Or better yet,
put up your own demonstration site. Then
send us a link to it and an announcement about what it contains, and we'll
put an item for it in News Bytes. Maybe all that will encourage other Linux
sites to get more pizzazz.
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<P><STRONG>
(ie stop acting like text crazed command line geeks and get with us poxy
graphical idiots, who have been web building with Macromedia products and the
like)
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">Linux Gazette is slow to adopt new visual technology, kind of like the Amish.
We prefer to wait a few years and see which technologies would actually be a
long-term benefit to all our users. It's an unusual kind of zine; I don't know
of any others like it. Most people read it from mirrors in 47 countries,
through the Linux Documentation Project, download the FTP files, read it on a
CD-ROM, download the articles to their palm pilot, etc.
So anything dynamic is out because it would cut off a significant portion of
the readership. We also don't want to impose any special software requirements
on the mirrors. Two concessions to dynamism: the search engine and talkbacks
on the main site.
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">We're also mindful of bandwidth restraints: many readers and mirrors live in
countries where they pay by the minute for Internet access, so I try to keep
each issue down to less than a megabyte or two (compressed).
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">We also have to piece together the whole thing into an all-in-one version (the
entire issue on one page), because that's how LG started and many readers prefer
to print it that way. This rules out differing stylesheets per article, or
anything special the article needs in the HTML header.
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">Most of the editors subscribe to the "good website design" philosophy, meaning
content is king. If you can't say it in text, it isn't worth saying. Obviously
we don't go all the way on that, because we have been publishing several cartoon
series. But still, all decorations are evaluated in terms of how essential they
are to the content. If readers like the text, they'll be back. if they won't
read it unless it has bells and whistles all around it, well, we don't want them
anyway. There are plenty of sites that are highly graphical (and can't be
navigated unless you have Flash and Javascript enabled), and LG doesn't wish to
compete in that department.
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">By the way, Your Editor has a strong adversion to "left column" and
"right column" sidebars (tables), and will resist them as long as he can.
Let the article text flow freely across the entire width of the browser,
outside a table, and in the default font. Persumably, the reader has
adjusted his default font to his preference.
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">A-men to that! And a-women, too. I don't long for uniformity on the Web,
but if more people paid attention to those basics, more information would
be more easily accessible. Sing that song!
-- Ben</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Not to rag too hard back, but:
<ol>
<li> Tell O'Reilly to get that wart zapped. The last time I saw this
was LWN having some problems with an ad provider whose "pull
through" would bomb out that way about 1 time in 10. I'm not
sure if they fired the ad provider, or just made 'em fix it,
but I know it's tricky to chase down problems that are hard to
reproduce.
<li> We can't shoot at bugs without a target symbol over the varmint.
In other words "it's ugly" isn't enough of a problem description.
Try again.
</ol>
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Since we live in a world of choice, try a few of the following on for size:
Dillo, Chimera, Amaya, Opera, Arachne, links (not the same as lynx), w3m,
Browsex, ViewML, mnemonic, Zen, konqueror. If you find a copy of Grail
let me know as its homesite died ages ago and I haven't found packages since.
Maybe it was under a non-free license??
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">Grail (a Python web browser) is now at
<A HREF="http://grail.sourceforge.net"
>http://grail.sourceforge.net</A> . The
last version was April 1999. It died because its sponsoring organization
(CNRI?) stopped putting developer resources into it. They did that because
they realized its features and speed were never going to compete with recent
versions of Netscape and Internet Explorer.
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">With Grail died the ability to run Python applets in a browser, but that's OK
because there never were any Python applets except a few demos. But now there's
Jython, which is an implementation of Python in Java, so you can do almost the
same thing.
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">However, there was a good thing from the Grail legacy. The parts to build a
browser, parse URLs, parse HTML files, etc, and everything else a browser needs
to do, got put in the standard Python distribution as modules, so you can use
them in other programs.
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Visit some students at your local
blind school, ask them if their speech readers do our site alright... and
have your local PDA pick up the current Linux Gazette packet from Sitescooper.
I'm <EM>not</EM> going to suggest that you telnet to port 80 and handle your own
client side of the HTTP connection, but you can do that if it makes you
feel like a completist :D
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">We try not to change the templates too often
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Variety may be the spice of life but aiming generic rather than in any one
direction means less work to have readable results without heavy testing.
(We <EM>do</EM> try to test for broken hotlinks, and sorta glance around for typos,
but those sometimes escape us too.) As we're all unpaid volunteers, and not
very many of us, making the best use of our time is important too.
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">We're modeled more after the community green sheet (e.g. Campbell Reporter
gets a picture here and there, but mostly it's plain ink on rag paper)
than a large city newspaper (with its Home and Garden section, coupons in
the food section, comics section bigger than some articles, classified ads
fatter than all other sections but the sports, etc) or a 90 page glossy
magazine on clay-laden paper with dye sublimation ink. On the flip side
we don't charge $7.95 on newsstands and have a two to three month lead time
for articles, either.
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">There's a great little article at "This website optimized for --- arguing
with customers" (<A HREF="http://www.htmlhelp.com/feature/art2.htm"
>http://www.htmlhelp.com/feature/art2.htm</A>). Like it says,
we're not going to tell people to get rid of whatever they already have just
to read anything here.
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">OnRamp gets brownie points
for using the default font in the center column, but loses points for having
the left sidebar. At least the center column isn't too narrow. And at
least--thankfully--they don't split the articles into pages, unlike, say,
Salon (<A HREF="http://salon.com"
>http://salon.com</A>), where you have to wait for a download cycle
between each page.
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<HR width="10%" align="center">
<h4>
<a name="check"
>JUST CHECKING...</a>
</h4>
<P><STRONG>
Yes that means you will actually have to stop using Lynx and start using
Mozilla to check the visual integrity of your code!
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">Actually, I do most of my work in Netscape 4. I occasionally use
Konqueror 2.2.1 for comparision, but I get sick of the 3-5 seconds of
extra overhead on every
click. At home I use Galeon. For local documentation or when I'm going to a
known-text page, I use links, or lynx if it requires https:. I don't know what
the other editors use.
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Funny you should mention that, I was able to read your site with lynx
when Netscape failed abysmally -- since noting yourself as a GUI fan, I
figured to hit it with a graphical browser first...
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">My <EM>portion</EM> of the Gazette is always checked with both lynx (2.8.3dev9 with
SSL patches, yeah I know it's ancient, but I'm happy with my color settings)
and netscape (4.77 normally). They each correct for different varieties of
HTML misbehavior, and that allows me to fix glitches generated by my
preprocessing script, which tortures about 400 slices of mail into something
resembling pieces of a webzine. I <EM>sometimes</EM> test with konqueror, NS6,
or Browsex. We've been advised that Opera's rendering of the Front Page
only (ironically, the only one where we tried to get fancy with layout)
is a mite strange... of course, that's commercial software, and the effect
doesn't really stop reading, but we dunno any way to convince it to do
the table-heuristic we wanted. Oh well.
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">That vertical black line is gone. It was a 1-pixel black .gif inside a table
cell, which was supposed to expand into a vertical black bar. However, it
used WIDTH="2%", which made it stretch wide on some browsers. So I changed it
to a fixed width. However, Opera continued to expand it while the other
browsers stopped. Now it's gone. Good riddance.
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">What version of Mozilla are you using, what bug/wart did you encounter,
and does it also afflict Netscape 6, Galeon, or other mozilla derivatives?
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">Argh. Leon, could you send your stuff in plain text, and wrap
it at less than 80 (preferably, around 72) columns? That's
considered good e-mail manners.
-- Ben</font></blockquote>
<P><STRONG>
Argh indeed - I am forced by the hand of Bill Gates - my headers will
inform you my work machine is a W2K with Outlook - I couldn't be polite
with my text if I tried. As far as it's concerned I AM sending plain
text!!!!!!!! I am moving jobs soon, but staying on the same campus - I
will then rebel and use Linux for my desktop....AND BILL WILL
WEEP!!!!!!!!!!!! (HeeHeeHeeee...)
</STRONG></P>
<P>
Seems like there's a way to tell even Outlook to be civil, at least
in this respect.
</P>
<P>
Unfortunately this way eludes me ... could somebody here more versed
than I in the Dark Arts speak up?
-- Dan
</P>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">&lt;laugh&gt; Cool. Mike Orr, our editor here, has mentioned that we have the
procedure for smacking Outlook down to decent behavior written down
somewhere;
-- Ben</font></blockquote>
<P>
Chris G here, from the Dark Arts group of people. I supplied detailed
instructions on how to set up Outlook Express to send in plain text mode
when sending email. In it was included the fact that the MUA should not
reply in the same format as the original message. That was in issue 65,
"Setup of Microsoft Outlook Express 5 for Sending of Clear Text":
<A HREF="../issue65/tag/8.html"
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue65/tag/8.html</A>
</P>
<P>
Hopefully, that will work for Leon.
-- Chris G
</P>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">
A friend of
mine sent me the following step-by-step guide (he works in a mixed
environment, and needs to twiddle his settings back and forth):
</font></blockquote>
<TABLE WIDTH="95%" BORDER="1" BGCOLOR="#FFFFCC"><TR><TD>
<p align="center">...............</p>
<P>
How to send plain text email using Outlook in 3 clicks or less
By Samuel Kopel
</P>
<P>
This will work in Outlook(not sure about express)
</P>
<P>
Start a new message
</P>
<P>
On the menu bar select 'Format/Plain Text'
</P>
<P>
Click [YES] to the message "Warning: Changing the formatting of this
message from HTML to plain text requires removing all the current
formatting, including any pictures you may have included. Are you sure you
want to do this?"
</P>
<P>
If you want to change your default to text (recommended if the majority of
your email does not go to other Outlook users) you need to change the
options settings.
</P>
<P>
From the menu:
'Tools/Options'
Select the [Mail Format] tab and change to "plain text"
</P><p align="center">...............</p>
</TD></TR></TABLE>
<HR width="10%" align="center">
<h4>
<a name="flash"
>MACROMEDIA FLASH</a>
</h4>
<P>
Macromedia Flash, Javascript and fancy graphics would be possible since
they are self-contained (i.e., don't require particular software on the
web server). However, they would have problems on non-major browsers,
and LG readers have a wide variety of browsers, and are more likely
than the general public to run experimental browsers on principle.
Also, some readers have older computers, and buying a new computer would
cost several months' salary. Last year I got a letter from a reader in
Africa asking if there is an e-mail version of LG (there isn't),
because his school cannot afford to read it on the web.
--Mike
</P>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Macromedia Shockwave isn't readable on Linux (unless something new has
happened that I don't know about). Flash is ok but broken in some
contexts, unusable entirely in others, and we don't want the site unusable
to anyone. There are so many versions of Javascript nee' ECMAscript I
stopped counting -- and Java is getting there. People read us worldwide
including on PDAs and in libaries and coffee shops. (ok, the coffee shops
probably can handle the cool stuff. We've gotten lots of questions about
coffee shops running Linux.) Also on "that slow old thing" and a cheap
dialup link while preparing the spiffy new box to run Linux. (Even though
they <EM>can</EM> render the graphics, maybe it's so bad they even turn off image
loading in the GUI.) Etc.
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">I forgot to mention. If you have a small Flash movie on a Linux theme, we
may be able to put it in as an article. Or if you'd like to write an article
about building Flash movies on Linux or something like that, we could also
publish it.
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<HR width="10%" align="center">
<h4>
<a name="goforit"
>YOU CAN DO IT</a>
</h4>
<P><STRONG>
I'm not really bagging, just sick of not being excited when I hit a
linux site.
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">Linux is a do-it-yourself thing. Go forth and build the ultimate
Linux web site.
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Feel free to actually do a cool new layout
and have that be the format
for your new mirror of us. We'd happily list you in our mirrors database,
and publish the script you use to tweak it if you like, so other mirrors
can do things your way too. Sharing resources is good.
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">That's the beauty of stuff under free
licenses ... you can tweak your
copy and you aren't breaking any laws whatsoever.
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">If you have good tricks for having your
GUI cake
and eating text too, it'd make an excellent article for the Gazette (a linux
focus in it would put it on topic), and Mike Orr
(<A HREF="mailto:gazette@ssc.com"
>gazette@ssc.com</A>) would be
glad to accept your submission. If <EM>that</EM> excites you about us, read our
author guidelines in the Linux Gazette FAQ, and we look forward to seeing it!
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
<P><STRONG>
cheers,
L
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="#000066">Have a good weekend, hope your Linux is being more fun than our layout for ya.
-- Heather</font></blockquote>
<HR width="10%" align="center">
<h4>
<a name="goodsport"
>ALL IN GOOD STRIDE</a>
</h4>
<P><STRONG>
Ben,
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Don't take it so personal - the Editor explained everything very nicely,
I'm sorry if I offended - I am a graphical ponse, it's not my fault I
was born that way!!!!!!!
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
L
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">&lt;grin&gt; No worries, Leon - you didn't offend me. I got a little grumpy at
you telling us how we've got to do something without knowing our
requirements, but that's all; no offense involved.
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">For myself, I like graphical stuff when done in appropriate amounts
relevant to the material at hand. Today, there are <EM>way</EM> too many web pages
that use graphics gratuitously, without any sense behind them - and I must
say that the page you pointed to does not fit that category, although it
has other problems (at least from my perspective.)
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#1F1F1F">So, here's an idea for you; an opportunity to possibly convert a few folks
into "graphical ponses", if you will. Go with what Mike suggested: write an
article about Web page design; include some links to demonstrate each of
your points. Who knows?... it might become a graphical ponse revolution.
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
-- Ben</font></blockquote>
<HR width="10%" align="center"><P><STRONG>
Heather,
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
You write too much - I can't even type that fast and you want me to read
all that!????
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
As I said I like the content - I'm sold an that - I also said I'm new to
Linux, thus may only be bagging what I don't understand....yet!
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
All points on bandwidth, mirroring etc etc are taken - OK!!!!!
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
I still hate Brussel sprouts with butter - I'd rather eat the tub of
butter.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Geez, I know not now to stir whith what ain't broken....
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Oh and to clarify - I Certainly Don't Work For O'Reilly!! (And I'm not
such a fan of Flash myself - but don't tell my boss!)
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
I am glad to have stimulated some conversation though
</STRONG></P>
<HR width="10%" align="center"><P><STRONG>
Mike,
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Thanks for an in depth reply : This shows me your commitment to uphold
all that is good and right in the computing world, and your reasons for
doing it. Good on ya! - I can take much of what you have said about the
web and put it into practice - thanks - all points noted.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
I am pleased that you did in fact reply - you would be surprised how
many people would take a comment like my and ignore it - so thanks
again.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
I am what your world would call a Linux Newbie so your feedback and
explanations are essential to my development, and I suspect yours. I am
looking forward to building new sites, I do have some commercial
Intranets on the build, and in use, none of which I can advertise -
interestingly enough, I am using mySQL, PHP on guess what: <A HREF="http://www.redhat.com/">Red Hat</A> Linux
7.2. They work a dream, and are - FULL of lovely graphics, but tied to
100Mbps LANs, so I can afford the bandwidth! Call me a cheat!
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Oh and thanks for the cauliflower laugh.
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">You want some more cauliflower?
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<P><STRONG>
Keep up the good work, I will be a regular visitor for the CONTENT!
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
cheers,
L
</STRONG></P>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">Leon, given your responsiveness (most important), verbosity and funny
comebacks, have you ever considered a career in The Answer Gang? Would you
feel comfortable answering questions about Linux?
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#001F3F">If so, see The Answer Gang FAQ, <A HREF="../tag/members-faq.html"
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/tag/members-faq.html</A>
-- Mike</font></blockquote>
<P><STRONG>
I gave it some thought Mike - I dont know if I can match up to the class
of company - I have little Linux experience (love the 'Iron Orr' bit)
When I move jobs next week, (and desktop machines! yay to the end of
W2K) I'll have to set up some Linux servers, with RAID and big network
transfer speeds for up to 20 Mac OSX clients running video editing
software - Utilising the network drives as a data bank, so clients can
log onto any machine to edit and be presented with up to 10GB of storage
space for the hungry video stuff.
</STRONG></P>
<P>
Only 10GB? What are they editing; news packages?
<IMG SRC="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":-)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
-- jra
</P>
<P><STRONG>
After that I'll be in a position to answer some questions on Linux!
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
(If anyone has some pointers on the above problem please jump in - or
even if it is possible! specially Mac OSX Vs Linux issues.)
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
'till then Ciao!
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Leon Czechowicz
</STRONG></P>
<P>
The problem is <EM>sustained throughput</EM>. TTBOMK, <EM>nothing</EM> is fast
enough at the network filer level at the moment to do anything much
faster than DV (3.5MB/s). To beat that, you need, I think, to go to
NAS, or something similar: shared <EM>drives</EM>, rather than shared
filesystems.
</P>
<P>
Perhaps things have speeded up a bit... but be prepared to go to either
100Mbs Ether with dedicated adapters, or Gigabit shared... and
something more towards token than ether is not out of line.
</P>
<P>
Either that, or nasty buffering on the mount client.
</P>
<P>
Investigate Cinelerra, too.
</P>
<P>
Cheers,
-- jra
</P>
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