LDP
/
old-www
1
1
Fork 0
Code Issues Pull Requests Releases Wiki Activity
old-www/LDP/LG/issue71/tag/5.html

565 lines
23 KiB
HTML
Raw Permalink Blame History

<!--startcut ======================================================= -->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<META NAME="generator" CONTENT="lgazmail v1.3F.f">
<TITLE>The Answer Gang 71: What ISPs Do We Use for Linux</TITLE>
</HEAD><BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" TEXT="#000000"
LINK="#3366FF" VLINK="#A000A0">
<!-- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -->
<P> <hr>
<CENTER>
<!-- *** BEGIN navbar *** -->
<!-- *** END navbar *** -->
</CENTER>
</p>
<P> <hr>
<!-- begin tagnav ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-->
<p align="center">
<table width="100%" border="0"><tr>
<td align="right" valign="center"
><IMG ALT="" SRC="../../gx/navbar/left.jpg"
WIDTH="14" HEIGHT="45" BORDER="0" ALIGN="middle" border="0"
><A HREF="..//"
><IMG SRC="../../gx/navbar/toc.jpg" align="middle"
ALT="[ Table Of Contents ]" border="0"></A
><A HREF="../lg_answer71.html"
><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/answertoc.jpg" align="middle"
ALT="[ Answer Guy Current Index ]" border="0"></A></td>
<td align="center" valign="center"><A HREF="../lg_answer71.html#greeting"><img align="middle"
src="../../gx/dennis/smily.gif" alt="greetings" border="0"></A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="1.html">1</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="2.html">2</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="3.html">3</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="4.html">4</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="5.html">5</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="6.html">6</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="7.html">7</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="8.html">8</A>
</td>
<td align="left" valign="center"><A HREF="../../tag/kb.html"
><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/answerpast.jpg" align="middle"
ALT="[ Index of Past Answers ]" border="0"></A
><IMG ALT="" SRC="../../gx/navbar/right.jpg" align="middle"
WIDTH="14" HEIGHT="45" BORDER="0"></td></tr></table>
</p>
<!-- end tagnav ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-->
<P> <hr> <P>
<!-- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -->
<center>
<H1><A NAME="answer">
<img src="../../gx/dennis/qbubble.gif" alt="(?)"
border="0" align="middle">
<font color="#B03060">The Answer Gang</font>
<img src="../../gx/dennis/bbubble.gif" alt="(!)"
border="0" align="middle">
</A></H1>
<BR>
<H4>By Jim Dennis, Ben Okopnik, Dan Wilder, Breen, Chris, and the Gang,
the Editors of Linux Gazette...
and You!
<br>Send questions (or interesting answers) to
<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com">linux-questions-only@ssc.com</a>
</H4>
<p><em><font color="#990000">There is no guarantee that your questions
here will <b>ever</b> be answered. Readers at confidential sites
must provide permission to publish. However, you can be published
anonymously - just let us know!
</font></em></p>
</center>
<p><hr><p>
<!-- endcut ======================================================= -->
<!-- begin 5 -->
<H3 align="left"><img src="../../gx/dennis/qbubble.gif"
height="50" width="60" alt="(?) " border="0"
>What ISPs Do We Use for Linux</H3>
<p><strong>From Chris Gianakopoulos
</strong></p>
<p></strong></p>
<p align="right"><strong>Answered By Dan Wilder, Heather Stern, Thomas Adams, Faber Fedor, John Karns,
Ben Okopnik, Mike Orr
</strong></p>
<P><STRONG>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
>
Hello gang,
I am going to lose my Internet service provider at the end of this year
because they are going to disappear.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
I am visiting various web pages for ISPs out there, but, I am clueless
about how to determine their (the ISPs) interoperability with Linux.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
For example, I talked to the support staff at www.excelonline.com, and
they said that their ISP service should work with Linux.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
I'm not sure what the failure mechanisms are, and I will probably do lots
more surfing of the web so that I can find a suitable replacement for my
current ISP (provided by www.gateway.net).
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
About Linux Friendly ISPs... What does friendly mean? Does it mean that
standard protocols are used?
</STRONG></P>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Dan]
The short answer is, "almost any ISP works with Linux, but don't
count on technical support from most of them."
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
With most ISPs, you'll have to know how to set up your PPP, dhcp,
whatever, yourself. Increasingly, people are going to DSL and cable,
and you need to watch out for the ones who want you to put the router
or modem inside your box. Some of these are unsupported in Linux.
Better to go with a provider who furnishes an external router or
modem.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Mike]
An external modem will be more expensive ($200), but is worth it because
it's "standard". My Cisco 678 connects to an ordinary Ethernet card, and
is configured via telnet or a null-modem cable (minicom/kermit).
(Actually, I could never get the telnet mode to work because I couldn't
figure out the device's IP address on its configuration network. So I
went the minicom way.) The modem is switchable between bridging and
routing. The telco said I have to use bridging mode, so I'm directly on
the ISP's network. The modem converts from Ethernet to DSL, then to ATM,
then back to Ethernet at my ISP. For those that use the telco's own ISP,
I hear they use routing mode over PPP.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
The telcos/cablecos frequently have promotions where you get a free or
discounted modem. And my ISP (oz.net/theriver.com, covering Washington
and Colorado) has deals for ex-Covad customers now that Covad is
bankrupt: free setup and installation for their portion of the fees
and free first and last month. I expect other ISPs have similar deals.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Ben]
By now, it's "you name it, and I've used it." I have not yet run into an
ISP to which I couldn't connect (AOL is neither an ISP _nor_ anything that
I want to connect to; I'd hate to wash my modem out with soap...) I've gone
through, oh, at least a dozen ISPs - in the Bahamas, all over the Caribbean,
in Bermuda, and a number of different ones in the States. Come to think of
it, better make that around two dozen.
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle"> I've used Ethernet, PCMCIA/serial/
USB modems, both wired and radio, and I'm about to try it via a cell phone.
These days, I'm about to drop AT&amp;T, their support policies <EM>and</EM> quality of
service started from egregiously bad and took a sharp downward turn. And
the rates. Blechhh.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
Anyway - trust me: if it's at all possible, Linux has a way to do it.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Faber]
Basically, yes. TCP/IP is TCP/IP and even Microsoft Exchange supports
SMTP and POP.
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":-)"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Heather]
[For connectivity itself] most dialup places that speak MSwin-only use PAP.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [John]
Almost all services should work with Linux. Some might be a little more
difficult to deal with than others, but most ISP's today use chap <TT>/</TT> pap
and set things up to be compatible with the default MSW client internet
connection cfg. I have found wvdial to work in almost all cases. Here in
Bogota, virtually all ISP's are using w2k or other MSW platform servers,
with no login scripts, which seem to be a thing of the past - which means
less fuss for you. I have tried at least three different ones over the
past 3 yrs and all have worked. Although sometimes (not too often) I have
to try dialing more than once to get a connection due to PAP
authentication gotcha's; but I tend to think that it's more an issue of
telecommunications complications than anything else.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Mike]
PAP and CHAP authentication are conceptually similar to an ssh login
without a password prompt. It does send a login and password, but this
is part of the built-in handshaking process rather than something you
have to script. To troubleshoot, set PPP to debugging mode and watch
the handshake strings and error messages. I haven't used pppd for years,
but the most frequent errors I used to get were the one about the line
not being 8-bit clean (you have to escape more special characters), or
the mysterious "serial line loops back" or whatever, meaning it tries to
contact the remote host but reaches itself; I think that means some
client/server switch is wrong.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
As they say, Microsoft loves industry standards so much that it never
saw a protocol it didn't embrace and extend. NT4 had PAP and CHAP, but
it was "Microsoft PAP and CHAP". pppd users had to install a patch,
which eventually made its way into the standard package. Each version
of NT/Win2000/WinXP may introduce similar subtleties.
</blockQuote>
<P><STRONG>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
>
That's interesting (but not the least bit surprising) - I wasn't aware of
that.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Cool -- I partly understand things.
I noticed that my new ISP uses PAP. My (soon to be) previous ISP uses
CHAP.
</STRONG></P>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Faber]
As Dan pointed out, just about any ISP will suffice, just don't expect
any technical support. If you do require technical support, be
preparedto switch over to Windows for the duration of the phone call.
</blockQuote>
<P><STRONG>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
>
That's cool. I can live without the support --
It's more fun figuring things out myself (and with your
help -- of course).
</STRONG></P>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Heather]
I have found that either wvdial or xisp or (there's a k toy, is it kisp?
kdial? oh well, it was on freshmeat somewhere) work slightly differently,
so if one doesn't work for you try the others before even starting to stress
out. Jim does dialup. I haven't had to in years, though I can trouble
shoot a raw PPP connection if I really have to.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
Between freshmeat and the debian packages listing there are so many
front-ends trying to make it easy to do dialup, it's hard to just pick one
to use
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=";P"
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
</blockQuote>
<P><STRONG>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
>
That's true. Sometimes, I feel more comfortable doing it the "hard"
way, just so I know how to set up the various ppp scripts. For my
<A HREF="http://www.freebsd.org/">FreeBSD</A> machine, I have two alternatives. I can use the pppd (our
daemon), or I can use a program called ppp (a user space process). The
latter is pretty cool, because, by turning on ip forwarding (with the
sysctl command), and passing "-nat" to the ppp program, I get ip
masquerading.
</STRONG></P>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [John]
An important part of the issue might be to tell them that you're running
Linux, and ask if they would have a problem providing answers to you
regarding such a platform. If they turn up their nose at you, look
elsewhere. I would maybe ask them what platform they are using for their
operation, and look for one which is using a *nix <TT>/</TT> non-MSW platform.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
There should be a number of ISP's that (still) fit this category.
Another reason I would tend to avoid the MSW people would be that I would
assume the *nix people might be a little more savvy technically speaking,
as setting up a w2k <TT>/</TT> or NT box may done with a few mouse clicks - ok
maybe several.
</blockQuote>
<P><STRONG>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
>
Or does it mean that a bunch of advertising
stuff does not clog your display window when using, for example, Netscape?
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
For example, a friend told me that when you use America Online, you need
their special browser to interact with them. I thought that all browsers
used http over TCP for the communications mechanism.
</STRONG></P>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Faber]
AOL is a proprietary network, with proprietary protocols. IMNSHO, AOL is
not an ISP (in terms of a center that whose primary purpose is to let
you gain access to the Internet) but a private networks which,
coincidentally, you can access the Internet through.
</blockQuote>
<P><STRONG>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
>
Now I see why this is so. ISPs I sort of understand. AOL, I did not
understand (since I do not see their protocols in the textbooks that I
read).
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
As far as email is concerned, I thought that POP and SMTP would be
supported by each and every ISP (possibly a misconception on my part).
</STRONG></P>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Mike]
Every regular ISP supports POP. Some may try to steer you toward IMAP
instead of POP because it's more "advanced". Of course, if you don't
need IMAP's features (which allow complex operations on messages stored
on the server, rather than downloading them to your PC and reading them
there), POP works just fine.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Faber]
As longas it's not a proprietary network like AOL or Delphi (is that one
still around? What about Bix?), then you should be okay. But check
with the ISP JIC.
</blockQuote>
<P><STRONG>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
>
Very cool! I just tried an experiment using a friend's ISP account with
the provider that I was interested in (with the friend's permission of
course, and we were not simultaneously using the service), and it works!
It was just a connectivity experiment -- not one to rob somebody's
bandwidth.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
So, my goals were to discover if ISPs are somewhat generic in their
behaviors (it seemed logical that they should be). Thanks to your
responses, and my experiment, I am now confident to proceed.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
If a few of you could respond to the question "Which dialup ISP do you use
with your Linux system", that would be cool. I'll go ahead and read the
HOWTOs and figure out all of that chap-secrets stuff and make it work for
my <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/">SuSE</A> Linux distribution.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
I guess that I am sort of lost because I am not getting the information
that I want from the various ISP sites (due to my ignorance of course).
</STRONG></P>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Dan]
You didn't mention where you were.
</blockQuote>
<p>
... Not that this kept most of the Gang from jumping in, nor
that the results might not also be useful to you, dear readers ...
</p>
<P><STRONG>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
>
How silly of me, Dan. I forgot to mention that I am in the Chicago, IL
area. Thanks for the ultra quick reply. I just tried an experiment with
www.excelonline.com using my sister-in-law's login using my FreeBSD
machine as a router. Therefore this particular ISP works with FreeBSD's
ppp user space program. Linux should be free sailing -- I expect.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
I gotta log off because the use of her ISP account (with her permission,
of course -- she's sitting next to me) was only for experimental purposes.
</STRONG></P>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [John]
With a *nix acc't you might want to look for an ISP which offers
shell accounts. It's nice to be able to log in and read mail from their
server if need be, or place a .forward file to have your mail temporarily
forwarded somewhere else if you plan to travel to where there will be a
local email account available.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
And, there might be more reliability with an ISP using a *nix-based
box. :-0
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Mike]
Good luck. Most ISPs consider shell accounts a security risk, generator of
most of their tech-support calls ("Can you install/upgrade this
mailreader/newsreader/ compiler/library?"), and not a marketing priority
(because most of their customers wouldn't know what to do with a shell
account if it bit them).
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [John]
No doubt the shell acc'ts are rarer today than a few years ago. I admit
that I haven't shopped for an ISP shell acc't for about 3 years; but at
that time I did come across a few. Also, my Colorado ISP acc't which I've
had since about 1995 is still a shell acc't. They use a kerberos'd DEC
ultrix.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Dan]
In the Seattle area, where our offices are located, we have a number
of Linux-supportive ISPs, such as blarg.net, eskimo.com, serv.net,
zipcon.net, oz.net, speakeasy.net, and others to whom I no doubt do
an unjustice by not listing here. Some of these providers have points of
presence in other cities.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Heather]
My provider, Idiom.com, offers dialup. It's S.F regional and spreading, but
I don't think it's nationwide quite yet. The owner is a big BSD fan so it's
all free software under the hood, and an all-digital internal backbone. It
may be more expensive than others, but we like getting our DSL from someone
we can trust - not like those PacBell bozos...
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
For Jim and I, Idiom's dialup is mainly a backup for if we are out of town,
but it's still handy.
</blockQuote>
<blockQuote>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
> [Thomas]
Hello. That is a shame that Gateway are cutting their
ties with providing Intenet Access. I know of a few
ISP's in the UK that are Linux "friendly":
</blockQuote>
<blockquote><pre>www.uklinux.net
www.f9.net.uk
www.vigin.net
</pre></blockquote>
<blockQuote>
All offer PPP support allowing you to dial in.
</blockQuote>
<P><STRONG>
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
>
I did find a good ISP. At least the tech support staff answered their
phone during a Saturday morning and afternoon. When I asked them if it
took 25 minutes to service my phone call because of their heavy service
load, they told me that there is only a few people around their on
weekends. I suspected something like that. I almost gave up waiting,
but, I decided to give them a fair shake (on the belief that they were
real busy). It was worth the wait! When I asked them if they knew if
their system would play well with Linux, they told me that they would
help me if I had any problems. They the fellow said "We're just a bunch
of computer geeks hanging around here" (or something like that). I saw
their coolness (I'm somewhat of a geek too), and decided to give their
site a try. They have a good staff at www.excel.com.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
As things went, I had no problems setting things up on my FreeBSD
machine (using user-space ppp) and no problems using Linux (using
wvdial).
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
I'm rereading the HOWTO that
talks about ip masquerading for Linux, because I do tend to give my
FreeBSD machine and Linux machines equal treatment. It's making sense
now...
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Thanks much to all of you that answered! You all, once again,
increased my confidence in this stuff. This is just like engineering --
lots of successes and lots of time me being humbled. There's always
something to learn in this protocol world (and Linux world). That's
what makes it so much fun.
</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>
Chris Gianakopoulos
</STRONG></P>
<!-- end 5 -->
<!--startcut ======================================================= -->
<P> <hr> </p>
<!-- *** BEGIN copyright *** -->
<H5 align="center">This page edited and maintained by the Editors
of <I>Linux Gazette</I>
<a href="http://www.linuxgazette.com/copying.html"
>Copyright &copy;</a> 2001
<BR>Published in issue 71 of <I>Linux Gazette</I> October 2001</H5>
<H6 ALIGN="center">HTML script maintained by
<A HREF="mailto:star@starshine.org">Heather Stern</a> of
Starshine Technical Services,
<A HREF="http://www.starshine.org/">http://www.starshine.org/</A>
</H6>
<!-- *** END copyright *** -->
<P> <hr>
<!-- begin tagnav ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-->
<p align="center">
<table width="100%" border="0"><tr>
<td align="right" valign="center"
><IMG ALT="" SRC="../../gx/navbar/left.jpg"
WIDTH="14" HEIGHT="45" BORDER="0" ALIGN="middle" border="0"
><A HREF="..//"
><IMG SRC="../../gx/navbar/toc.jpg" align="middle"
ALT="[ Table Of Contents ]" border="0"></A
><A HREF="../lg_answer71.html"
><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/answertoc.jpg" align="middle"
ALT="[ Answer Guy Current Index ]" border="0"></A></td>
<td align="center" valign="center"><A HREF="../lg_answer71.html#greeting"><img align="middle"
src="../../gx/dennis/smily.gif" alt="greetings" border="0"></A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="1.html">1</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="2.html">2</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="3.html">3</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="4.html">4</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="5.html">5</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="6.html">6</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="7.html">7</A> &nbsp;
<A HREF="8.html">8</A>
</td>
<td align="left" valign="center"><A HREF="../../tag/kb.html"
><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/answerpast.jpg" align="middle"
ALT="[ Index of Past Answers ]" border="0"></A
><IMG ALT="" SRC="../../gx/navbar/right.jpg" align="middle"
WIDTH="14" HEIGHT="45" BORDER="0"></td></tr></table>
</p>
<!-- end tagnav ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-->
<P> <hr>
<CENTER>
<!-- *** BEGIN navbar *** -->
<!-- *** END navbar *** -->
</CENTER>
</p>
<!-- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -->
</BODY></HTML>
<!--endcut ========================================================= -->
Reference in New Issue View Git Blame Copy Permalink