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937 lines
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HTML
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<META NAME="generator" CONTENT="lgazmail v1.1H.i">
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<TITLE>The Answer Guy 37: The Complaint Department: Typos and Grammatical Errors</TITLE>
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LINK="#3366FF" VLINK="#A000A0">
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<!-- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -->
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<H4>"The Linux Gazette...<I>making Linux just a little more fun!</I>"</H4>
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<P> <hr> <P>
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<center>
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<H1><A NAME="answer">
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<img src="../../gx/dennis/qbubble.gif" alt="(?)"
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border="0" align="middle">
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<font color="#B03060">The Answer Guy</font>
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<img src="../../gx/dennis/bbubble.gif" alt="(!)"
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border="0" align="middle">
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</A></H1>
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<BR>
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<H4>By James T. Dennis,
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<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com">linux-questions-only@ssc.com</a><BR>
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Starshine Technical Services,
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<A HREF="http://www.starshine.org/">http://www.starshine.org/</A>
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</H4>
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</center>
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<p><hr><p>
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<!-- endcut ======================================================= -->
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<!-- begin 23 -->
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<H3 align="left"><img src="../../gx/dennis/qbubble.gif"
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height="50" width="60" alt="(?) " border="0"
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>The Complaint Department: Typos and Grammatical Errors</H3>
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<p><strong>From David Augros on Sun, 10 Jan 1999
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</strong></p>
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<!-- ::
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The Complaint Department: Typos and Grammatical Errors
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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:: -->
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<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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Dear Jimbo,
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</STRONG></P>
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<P><STRONG>
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You seem to have all the answers (most of the ones to the good questions
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anyway...), and I am sure your wife is as lovely as she is capable when it
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comes to formatting and scripting. But the fact remains that every month,
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TAG is replete with typographical and spelling errors that would make a
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school teacher blush. Now I realize that you perform this service as a
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gift to the Linux community, and let me assure you, we are most grateful
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to benefit from your expertise and experience. I always enjoy reading
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your piece, (and I think Heather's comments sometimes cut to the quick
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much faster than yours do, ... women's intuition I guess). But, James, my
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man, we really have to think about what this looks like to the rest of the
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world. Yes the web and all other trappings of the internet bring with
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them an historically unprecedented dynamic of ever new and ever updated
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and always changing information... of this I am not unaware, but you still
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really need someone to go over your article before publishing. The rules
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of grammar do not change between most postings of TAG. Even an incompetent
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editor would catch eighty or more percent of these errors. And I am not
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talking about the sometimes illiterate nonsesnse that you receive as email
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on a (most likely) daily basis, but your own answers to said mail. If
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there is nobody else to do it, then let me know and we will work something
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out. The fact is, I really can't stand to see another month's worth of
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quality TAG go out to the world in the sorry state it has been doing so
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for as long as I have been reading it. Once again, I think you are the
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man, and I just want to help out here. That should be what you walk away
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with.
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</STRONG></P>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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My only complaint regarding your writing would be the
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utter lack of paragraph structuring.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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As you've noted, my faults related to a balance between
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the time I can devote to the writing and editing vs. the
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time I reserve for other work.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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I'm sorry for those typos that get through. On the whole
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of it I don't think my grammar is as deplorable as you
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seem to suggest. However, it's probably not perfect.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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I'd welcome an editor with the time to correct the typos
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--- though I'm not sure how we'd arrange it.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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I could ask Heather to read my work as she formats it,
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with full license to edit it. Her, script is getting
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pretty good, and she might find the time when I haven't
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flooded her with close to 100 separate messages. We'll
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see.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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(Meanwhile I can understand your frustration to some
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degree. I'm fairly forgiving when it comes to netnews,
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e-mail and web forums --- but I find the number of typos
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in professionally published and printed books to be pretty
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irritating).
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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Warm regards,
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Dave
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</STRONG></P>
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<!-- sig -->
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<!-- end 23 -->
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<hr width="40%" align="center"><!-- ................................ -->
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<!-- begin 25 -->
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<H3 align="left"><img src="../../gx/dennis/qbubble.gif"
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height="50" width="60" alt="(?) " border="0"
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>Heather Answers Also</H3>
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<p><strong>From <em>The Answer Guy</em> on Mon, 11 Jan 1999
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</strong></p>
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<P><STRONG>
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I ate the fortune cookie first, then read what Jim Dennis copied me on:
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</STRONG></P>
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<!-- ::<BlockQuote>
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The Complaint Department: Typos and Grammatical Errors
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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</BlockQuote>:: -->
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<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM>
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Dear Jimbo,
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</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
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<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM>
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You seem to have all the answers (most of the ones to the good questions
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anyway...), and I am sure your wife is as lovely as she is capable when it
|
|
comes to formatting and scripting. But the fact remains that every month,
|
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TAG is replete with typographical and spelling errors that would make a
|
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school teacher blush.
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</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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All one paragraph? "Typographical and spelling" -- I think Strunk would
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frown. Calm down, have a nice cup of tea.
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<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
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height="24" width="20" align="middle">
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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(Darn it, now I'll have to paint a speak bubble for myself. <em>sigh</em>)
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE></em>[ Actually, I painted a couple bubbles, but I'm not sure which
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to use, and would rather hope I don't become a regular on the
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answering side. I'm kinda torn between an asterisk bubble (star,
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get it?) or a bubble half drawn by a paintbrush. -- Heather ]
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</em></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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Bear in mind that I make very little effort to correct the querent, only the
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AnswerGuy. Rewriting the query would reduce our readers' understanding
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of how the question was asked. I only correct the AnswerGuy in the context
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of reading the columns at a much faster rate than the average reader... so
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a few things slip through. Was any of it difficult to understand because
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of grammar? (Jargon isn't a grammar problem here -- people are asking about
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technical issues.)
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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As I noted in one of the messages this last month, these are real people
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asking, and a real person answering the question. Real people do not speak
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perfect Oxford English, even though some try.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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Now I realize that you perform this service as a
|
|
gift to the Linux community, and let me assure you, we are most grateful
|
|
to benefit from your expertise and experience. I always enjoy reading
|
|
your piece, (and I think Heather's comments sometimes cut to the quick
|
|
much faster than yours do, ... women's intuition I guess).
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</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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And avoiding making them except to provide real content... I'm more of a GUI
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fan than Jim is, so have a smidge more experience with, as one querent put
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it, Brand X compatibility.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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But, James, my
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|
man, we really have to think about what this looks like to the rest of the
|
|
world. Yes the web and all other trappings of the internet bring with
|
|
them an historically unprecedented dynamic of ever new and ever updated
|
|
and always changing information... of this I am not unaware, but you still
|
|
really need someone to go over your article before publishing. The rules
|
|
of grammar do not change between most postings of TAG.
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|
</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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Neither do deadlines. I do wonder, though, if the translators that convert
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the Gazette into Italian, French, etc, make any effort to keep the "bad
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grammar" of many of the querents intact.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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Maybe I'll run one of the translations back through Babelfish... I have
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reasonable evidence that its translations are terrible. It ought to be a
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good laugh.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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Even an incompetent
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editor would catch eighty or more percent of these errors.
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</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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To edit for the purpose of adding HTML, and for the purpose of perfecting
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the grammar, are not the same thing.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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And I am not
|
|
talking about the sometimes illiterate nonsesnse that you receive as email
|
|
on a (most likely) daily basis, but your own answers to said mail. If
|
|
there is nobody else to do it, then let me know and we will work something
|
|
out. The fact is, I really can't stand to see another month's worth of
|
|
quality TAG go out to the world in the sorry state it has been doing so
|
|
for as long as I have been reading it.
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</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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As the Gazette is completely under the LDP, you are of course welcome to
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correct it, including old issues. The web is not the print medium, so you
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do not really have to feel it is frozen on paper and irreparable, even if
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its publishing schedule deliberately follows a magazine format.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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Considering your offer more thoughtfully, how are you at tight deadlines?
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We're talking 3 days or less here.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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I really hope you're not planning to restructure whole sentences or
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paragraphs; they often make better sense when taken as a whole than
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when taken alone. Nor is perfect grammar always desirable; many of the
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world's classic novels get bad grades from Grammatik(tm).
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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Once again, I think you are the man, and I just want to help out here.
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That should be what you walk away with.
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</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
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<P><STRONG>
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My only complaint regarding your writing would be the
|
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utter lack of paragraph structuring.
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</STRONG></P>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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See splits, above.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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As you've noted, my faults related to a balance between
|
|
the time I can devote to the writing and editing vs. the
|
|
time I reserve for other work.
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</STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
I'm sorry for those typos that get through. On the whole
|
|
of it I don't think my grammar is as deplorable as you
|
|
seem to suggest. However, it's probably not perfect.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
I'd welcome an editor with the time to correct the typos
|
|
--- though I'm not sure how we'd arrange it.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
I could ask Heather to read my work as she formats it,
|
|
with full license to edit it. Her script is getting
|
|
pretty good, and she might find the time when I haven't
|
|
flooded her with close to 100 separate messages. We'll
|
|
see.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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I have always assumed I had license to edit, but I only correct fairly
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minor things. I'm trying to provide to the world basically the same
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letter the querent received. To change it too much, would mean we were
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becoming more of a "useful topics this month" column rather than faithful
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republication of your mail threads.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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For example:
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><ul>
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<li>I will not completely reformat sentences, but I will add the occasional
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spaced-out verb or delete doubles. (If this leads to the oft-bemoaned
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"passive voice" - tough luck.) These aren't that common.
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<li>I make a sincere (but I suspect insufficient) effort to get the right
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"its"<TT>/</TT>"it's" since Jim's mental spellchecker seems to consider
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them equal. "There" and "they're" seem to get swapped occasionally too.
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<li>Sometimes, URLs have moved since the answer was given.
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<li>Occasionally my own mental spellchecker catches something out of place.
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However, usually I'm going too fast.
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</ul></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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I don't run ispell against it because I'd constantly have to feed jargon to
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our dictionary. I don't have time for that. I don't even remember if I ran
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'<tt>lynx -traverse</tt>' across the tree this time like I normally do, to
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check for broken links.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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As a personal comment I consider <EM>any</EM> change to the original content to
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be gravy; my purpose in transmuting the messages to HTML is to retain the
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appearance of the original mail. In some threads, that's a lot of work.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
(Meanwhile I can understand your frustration to some
|
|
degree. I'm fairly forgiving when it comes to netnews,
|
|
e-mail and web forums --- but I find the number of typos
|
|
in professionally published and printed books to be pretty
|
|
irritating).
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
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>
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Last I heard all of Linux Gazette is a volunteer, unpaid effort. (To my
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knowledge none of the authors and editors lack a seperate job.) Perhaps
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if it is ever "professionally published", i.e. put in book form, it will
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be sifted through for inocuous typos.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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However, I suspect those wanting a more organized restructuring of the
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knowledge Jim has to offer will be willing to wait for his book, which <EM>is</EM>
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a paid effort, with paid editors.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>
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Heather Stern
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<br><em>Use what talents you possess: the woods would be very silent
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if no birds sang there except those that sang best. -- Henry Van Dyke</em>
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
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|
<!-- end 25 -->
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|
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<hr width="40%" align="center"><!-- ................................ -->
|
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|
|
<!-- begin 35 -->
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<H3 align="left"><img src="../../gx/dennis/bbubble.gif"
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height="50" width="60" alt="(!) " border="0"
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>David Replies...</H3>
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|
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<p><strong>From Heather Stern on Sat, 16 Jan 1999
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</strong></p>
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<P><STRONG>
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All one paragraph? "Typographical and spelling" -- I think Strunk would
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|
frown.
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</STRONG></P>
|
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<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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I agree. I used to write term papers that way too. I'll probably never
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break the habit. But salt-water-taffy-wise, I think the message was OK.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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Calm down, have a nice cup of tea.
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<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
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height="24" width="20" align="middle">
|
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</STRONG></P>
|
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<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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Earl grey for me, thanks.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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Was any of it difficult to understand because of grammar? (Jargon isn't
|
|
a grammar problem here -- people are asking about technical issues.)
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</STRONG></P>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
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>
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My point does not concern comprehension so much as presentation. If a
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questioner says something silly, ungrammatical, or can't spell to save his
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life, that's one thing. But when Jim's answers contain <EM>very preventable</EM>
|
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errors, it just looks sloppy, and it is this that I wish to address. It
|
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may be a very superficial point, but it remains a point nonetheless.
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
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<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
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HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
As I noted in one of the messages this last month, these are real people
|
|
asking, and a real person answering the question. Real people do not speak
|
|
perfect Oxford English, even though some try.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
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>
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|
I agree that speech is informal, and I would never suggest that it is
|
|
important to correct spoken grammar-- the whole "spoken" dynamic of
|
|
usenet, email, and even TAG is a wonderful thing, and you are right to
|
|
want to preserve it. But TAG is also something more than plain speech.
|
|
These messages are archived and available for the indefinite future. Web
|
|
publishing, though more liquid than other forms, is still publishing, and
|
|
as such, it lacks the character of the spoken word which bounces off the
|
|
walls and ceiling and seeps into oblivion. I say, leave the questioner to
|
|
fend for himself, his crummy wording is his alone. But Jim's responses
|
|
reflect the professionalism of TAG, The Linux Gazette, and more remotely,
|
|
but still in a real way, the whole Linux community. Jim's column would
|
|
benefit from a "typo filter," and the whole world would be just that much
|
|
sunnier
|
|
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":-)"
|
|
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<...snippage...>
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
Maybe I'll run one of the translations back through Babelfish... I have
|
|
reasonable evidence that its translations are terrible. It ought to be a
|
|
good laugh.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
Babelfish <EM>is</EM> terrible, but it seems to be the best thing going for now.
|
|
I have a perl script which gives a nice command line interface the said
|
|
fish, and it has provided me with many good laughs. I can send it if you
|
|
like.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
Even an incompetent
|
|
editor would catch eighty or more percent of these errors.
|
|
</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
To edit for the purpose of adding HTML, and for the purpose of perfecting
|
|
the grammar, are not the same thing.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
Please understand that I in no way intended to imply that you were
|
|
incompetent (or less than that as it seems you have taken it). This
|
|
remark was meant to highlight the fact that no such editor is now in the
|
|
loop, and that even a poor one would be better than none at all. I know
|
|
the difference between formatting for HTML and general editing, and I
|
|
understand it is the former for which you are primarily responsible. It
|
|
was my intention to point out that noone is responsible for the latter,
|
|
nothing more than that.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
As the Gazette is completely under the LDP, you are of course welcome to
|
|
correct it, including old issues. The web is not the print medium, so you
|
|
do not really have to feel it is frozen on paper and irreparable, even if
|
|
its publishing schedule deliberately follows a magazine format.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
It is not so much my desire to have a "correct" copy of the Gazette for my
|
|
own personal use as it is my desire to see the Gazette show its best face
|
|
to the world. And that face is currently located at
|
|
<A HREF="http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue36"
|
|
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue36</A>.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
|
|
<blockquote><em>[ The top level index,
|
|
<A HREF="http://www.linuxgazette.com/"
|
|
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/</A>. probably would have been
|
|
a better place to point. Oh well! -- Heather ]
|
|
</em></blockquote>
|
|
|
|
<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
Considering your offer more thoughtfully, how are you at tight deadlines?
|
|
We're talking 3 days or less here.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
Three days is more than enough time to do an old s/there/their/ hear and
|
|
their, if you understand my meaning.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
I really hope you're not planning to restructure whole sentences or
|
|
paragraphs; they often make better sense when taken as a whole than
|
|
when taken alone. Nor is perfect grammar always desirable; many of the
|
|
world's classic novels get bad grades from Grammatik(tm).
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
First of all, Grammatik can do something unmentionable to something else,
|
|
even less mentionable to the first unmentionable thing. Secondly, the
|
|
kind of thing I am proposing here is like the following
|
|
(from <A HREF="http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue36/tag/b.html"
|
|
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue36/tag/b.html</A>):
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><BlockQuote>
|
|
change this:
|
|
... kernel core team has soundly reject suggestions that Linux adopt
|
|
</BlockQuote></BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
to this:
|
|
... kernel core team has soundly rejected suggestions that Linux adopt
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
I have always assumed I had license to edit, but I only correct fairly
|
|
minor things. I'm trying to provide to the world basically the same
|
|
letter the querent received. To change it too much, would mean we were
|
|
becoming more of a "useful topics this month" column rather than faithful
|
|
republication of your mail threads.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
For example:
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG><ul>
|
|
<li>I will not completely reformat sentences, but I will add the occasional
|
|
spaced-out verb or delete doubles. (If this leads to the oft-bemoaned
|
|
"passive voice" - tough luck.) These aren't that common.
|
|
<li>I make a sincere (but I suspect insufficient) effort to get the right
|
|
"its"<TT>/</TT>"it's" since Jim's mental spellchecker seems to consider them equal.
|
|
"There" and "they're" seem to get swapped occasionally too.
|
|
<li>Sometimes, URLs have moved since the answer was given.
|
|
<li>Occasionally my own mental spellchecker catches something out of place.
|
|
However, usually I'm going too fast.
|
|
</ul></STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
I agree with/completely understand/fully support all of the above.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
Last I heard all of Linux Gazette is a volunteer, unpaid effort. (To my
|
|
knowledge none of the authors and editors lack a seperate job.) Perhaps
|
|
if it is ever "professionally published", i.e. put in book form, it will
|
|
be sifted through for inocuous typos.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
Just becuase it is a volunteer effort does not mean that it has to be
|
|
sloppy. The kernel was written and is maintained by a strictly unpaid army of
|
|
programmers, and it is a beautiful piece of work. We should all hold
|
|
ourselves to the same standards. God bless America... OK, I'll stop now.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
However, I suspect those wanting a more organized restructuring of the
|
|
knowledge Jim has to offer will be willing to wait for his book, which <EM>is</EM>
|
|
a paid effort, with paid editors.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
I will be the first one on my block to buy it, as soon as it is available,
|
|
you can count on it.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
All things end up somewhere, and here we are...
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
--Dave
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
|
|
<!-- end 35 -->
|
|
|
|
<hr width="40%" align="center"><!-- ................................ -->
|
|
|
|
<!-- begin 50 -->
|
|
<H3 align="left"><img src="../../gx/dennis/qbubble.gif"
|
|
height="50" width="60" alt="(?) " border="0"
|
|
>Heather again: Let's see what the rest of the world thinks</H3>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p><strong>From David Augros on Sun, 17 Jan 1999
|
|
</strong></p>
|
|
<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>[snip]
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
My point does not concern comprehension so much as presentation. If a
|
|
questioner says something silly, ungrammatical, or can't spell to save his
|
|
life, that's one thing. But when Jim's answers contain <EM>very preventable</EM>
|
|
errors, it just looks sloppy, and it is this that I wish to address. It
|
|
may be a very superficial point, but it remains a point nonetheless.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
So Jim is supposed to be held to higher standards in just tossing off an
|
|
answer than the world of people is when tossing off a question. Hmmm. I'm
|
|
not sure I agree.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
As I noted in one of the messages this last month, these are real people
|
|
asking, and a real person answering the question. Real people do not speak
|
|
perfect Oxford English, even though some try.
|
|
</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
|
|
|
|
<blockquote><em>[ Specifically, in
|
|
"<a href="../../issue36/tag/40.html">TAG suggestions</a>" last
|
|
issue. -- Heather ]
|
|
</em></blockquote>
|
|
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
I agree that speech is informal, and I would never suggest that it is
|
|
important to correct spoken grammar-- the whole "spoken" dynamic of
|
|
usenet, email, and even TAG is a wonderful thing, and you are right to
|
|
want to preserve it. But TAG is also something more than plain speech.
|
|
These messages are archived and available for the indefinite future.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
It isn't graven in stone; if you want to apply edits, go for it, and send
|
|
the corrected package to the editor of Linux Gazette. There may be a delay
|
|
but she will probably post changes.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
Web publishing, though more liquid than other forms, is still publishing,
|
|
and as such, it lacks the character of the spoken word which bounces off the
|
|
walls and ceiling and seeps into oblivion.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
Actually, I suspect people like the Answer Guy column because he really
|
|
speaks with them, not because he stands at a Virtual Podium and makes
|
|
perfect Oxford English speeches. Although his words are kept from oblivion
|
|
by their posting, I do not think they lose their spoken nature here.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
I say, leave the questioner to
|
|
fend for himself, his crummy wording is his alone. But Jim's responses
|
|
reflect the professionalism of TAG, The Linux Gazette, and more remotely,
|
|
but still in a real way, the whole Linux community. Jim's column would
|
|
benefit from a "typo filter," and the whole world would be just that much
|
|
sunnier
|
|
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":-)"
|
|
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
Well, tell ya what. I'll make more of an effort to clobber typos as I
|
|
roll through the column. And we'll see if anyone else in the world even
|
|
notices. If they do, and I am just not good enough at mopping them up,
|
|
then we'll see what can be done about slipping a grammarian into the loop.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
<...snippage...>
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM>
|
|
Maybe I'll run one of the translations back through Babelfish... I have
|
|
reasonable evidence that its translations are terrible. It ought to be a
|
|
good laugh.
|
|
</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
Babelfish <EM>is</EM> terrible, but it seems to be the best thing going for now.
|
|
I have a perl script which gives a nice command line interface the said
|
|
fish, and it has provided me with many good laughs. I can send it if you
|
|
like.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
Nah, I have better humor sources for my usual fun. Send it to the 2cent tips
|
|
if you feel inclined.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
[snip]
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM>
|
|
As the Gazette is completely under the LDP, you are of course welcome to
|
|
correct it, including old issues. The web is not the print medium, so you
|
|
do not really have to feel it is frozen on paper and irreparable, even if
|
|
its publishing schedule deliberately follows a magazine format.
|
|
</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
It is not so much my desire to have a "correct" copy of the Gazette for my
|
|
own personal use as it is my desire to see the Gazette show its best face
|
|
to the world. And that face is currently located at
|
|
<A HREF="http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue36"
|
|
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue36</A>.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
And you seem to retain the delusion that it's burnt in and can't be changed
|
|
now that it's posted. In fact, a couple of months ago when I discovered
|
|
I'd broken some posted URLs, I sent the correction in, and <EM>pif</EM> they were
|
|
corrected. I'd like to think this isn't just because I help edit HTML.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
Considering your offer more thoughtfully, how are you at tight deadlines?
|
|
We're talking 3 days or less here.
|
|
</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
Three days is more than enough time to do an old s/there/their/ hear and
|
|
their, if you understand my meaning.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
If you're only going to do search-and-replace I am certainly <EM>not</EM> adding
|
|
another human to the loop... 3 days, maybe 4, is the <EM>total</EM> deadline block,
|
|
from the last posting until I've sent in a final package, and I usually post
|
|
an interim or two. The interim postings are because we're usually darn
|
|
close to late -- and I refuse to leave Marjorie high and dry with all of
|
|
it if we have a last minute problem.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
I really hope you're not planning to restructure whole sentences or
|
|
paragraphs; they often make better sense when taken as a whole than
|
|
when taken alone. Nor is perfect grammar always desirable; many of the
|
|
world's classic novels get bad grades from Grammatik(tm).
|
|
</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
First of all, Grammatik can do something unmentionable to something else,
|
|
even less mentionable to the first unmentionable thing. Secondly, the
|
|
kind of thing I am proposing here is like the following
|
|
(from <A HREF="http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue36/tag/b.html"
|
|
>http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue36/tag/b.html</A>):
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG><BlockQuote>
|
|
change this:
|
|
... kernel core team has soundly reject suggestions that Linux adopt
|
|
</BlockQuote></STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
to this:
|
|
... kernel core team has soundly rejected suggestions that Linux adopt
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
That's fair.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
[snip]
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM>
|
|
Last I heard all of Linux Gazette is a volunteer, unpaid effort. (To my
|
|
knowledge none of the authors and editors lack a seperate job.) Perhaps
|
|
if it is ever "professionally published", i.e. put in book form, it will
|
|
be sifted through for inocuous typos.
|
|
</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
Just becuase it is a volunteer effort does not mean that it has to be
|
|
sloppy. The kernel was written and is maintained by a strictly unpaid army of
|
|
programmers, and it is a beautiful piece of work. We should all hold
|
|
ourselves to the same standards. God bless America... OK, I'll stop now.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
And you are <EM>not</EM> seeing the first edition of CVS source code these kernel
|
|
hackers posted, you're seeing one man's code plus repairs from possibly hundreds
|
|
of others. In the Gazette, the mail has been through exactly two people,
|
|
except in the case of some threads, and there it may have gone through as
|
|
many as five, except that it isn't the habit of mailing list readers to correct
|
|
other people's grammar when quoting them.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
The LDP license offers the same opportunity for all readers who are not deep C
|
|
fishermen; thousands of eyes can read and correct the Linux Gazette, and every
|
|
HOWTO and MINI-HOWTO can be given fresh polish. Many info pages and man pages
|
|
could be improved as well; just send the fix to the package maintainer instead.
|
|
In short - don't just tell us how wonderful the world could be. Go forth and
|
|
make it prettier. You're on the right track in offering aid to us, but
|
|
missing the big picture.
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<P><STRONG><FONT COLOR="#000066"><EM><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" ALT="(?)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
However, I suspect those wanting a more organized restructuring of the
|
|
knowledge Jim has to offer will be willing to wait for his book, which <EM>is</EM>
|
|
a paid effort, with paid editors.
|
|
</EM></FONT></STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
I will be the first one on my block to buy it, as soon as it is available,
|
|
you can count on it.
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<P><STRONG>
|
|
All things end up somewhere, and here we are...
|
|
--Dave
|
|
</STRONG></P>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE><IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" ALT="(!)"
|
|
HEIGHT="28" WIDTH="50" BORDER="0"
|
|
>
|
|
So, I'll be putting a little more effort towards grammar this month. Any
|
|
of you with a mind to it should pick a HOWTO, a MINI-HOWTO, or an old article
|
|
of the Gazette or some other LDP item, and apply yourself to it. We'll clean
|
|
up the open documentation of Linux like a bunch of Scrubbing Bubbles (tm?).
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<blockquote><em>[ The Scrubbing Bubbles are a trademark of DowBrands, Inc.
|
|
-- Heather ]</em></blockquote>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
Folks, let me know if you notice
|
|
<IMG SRC="../../gx/dennis/smily.gif" ALT=":)"
|
|
height="24" width="20" align="middle">
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
<BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
Heather Stern
|
|
<br><A HREF="mailto:star+tag@starshine.org"
|
|
>star@starshine.org</A>
|
|
<br><em>Never tell people how to do things. Tell them WHAT to do and they will
|
|
surprise you with their ingenuity. -- Gen. George S. Patton, Jr.</em>
|
|
</BLOCKQUOTE>
|
|
|
|
<!-- end 50 -->
|
|
<!--startcut ======================================================= -->
|
|
<P> <hr> <P>
|
|
<H5 align="center"><a href="http://www.linuxgazette.com/copying.html"
|
|
>Copyright ©</a> 1999, James T. Dennis
|
|
<BR>Published in <I>The Linux Gazette</I> Issue 37 February 1999</H5>
|
|
<P> <hr> <P>
|
|
<!-- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -->
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