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<TITLE>The Answer Guy 29: Letter to Dell - Linux on Dell Hardware </TITLE>
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<!--endcut ========================================================= -->
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<H4>"Linux Gazette...<I>making Linux just a little more fun!</I>"
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</H4>
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<P> <hr> <P>
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<H1 align="center"><A NAME="answer">
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<img src="../gx/dennis/qbubble.gif" alt="" border="0" align="middle">
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<a href="./index.html">The Answer Guy</a>
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<img src="../gx/dennis/bbubble.gif" alt="" border="0" align="middle">
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</A></H1> <BR>
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<H4 align="center">By James T. Dennis,
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<a href="mailto:linux-questions-only@ssc.com">linux-questions-only@ssc.com</a><BR>
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Starshine Technical Services,
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<A HREF="http://www.starshine.org/">http://www.starshine.org/</A> </H4>
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<p><hr><p>
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<p>The original <a href="http://lwn.net/980514/dell.html">Open Letter to
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Dell</a> was posted to <a href="news:comp.os.linux.advocacy"
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>comp.os.linux.advocacy</a> and copied to
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<a href="http://www.lwn.net/">Linux Weekly News</a> and
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<a href="http://www.dell.com/">Dell Computer Corporation</a>.</p>
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<hr width="40%">
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<H3><img src="../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" alt="(?)" width="50" height="28"
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align="left" border="0">Letter to Dell - Linux on Dell Hardware </H3>
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<p><strong>From Rafael on 10 May 1998</strong></p>
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<p><strong>
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Thanks Denis for your letter to DELL.
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<br><br>
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I bought some Dell stocks this year. Not much but that puts me in an
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awkward situation. Dell is doing well but it realy bothered me that they
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officialy issued that statement about Linux.
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</strong></p>
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<blockquote><img src="../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" width="50" height="28" alt="(!)"
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align="left" border="0">
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As a shareholder, even of only a few shares, your message
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will probably get far more attention than mine.
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<br><br>
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I would love to see your letter to them, expressing your
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concerns both as a customer <strong>and</strong> as a stockholder.
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</blockquote>
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<p><strong><img src="../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" width="50" height="28" alt="(?)"
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align="left" border="0">
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I wonder if we could find other investors, Linux users, admins perhaps and
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put a little pressure from that position. That would be even more
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effective if we do it openly on the web.
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</strong></p>
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<blockquote><img src="../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" width="50" height="28" alt="(!)"
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align="left" border="0">
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I agree. You want to be even more "positive" in your tone
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since you actually have a financial stake in their future.
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<br><br>
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You want to emphasize how big a market you believe the
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Linux community to be --- point out that the first major
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company to offer Linux will probably remain at the top
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of that market for a long time, etc.
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</blockquote>
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<p><strong><img src="../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" width="50" height="28" alt="(?)"
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align="left" border="0">
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I know that Dell signed a letter with other CEO's in support of MS. What a
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bummer.
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</strong></p>
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<blockquote><img src="../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" width="50" height="28" alt="(!)"
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align="left" border="0">
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I personally can understand their official statements of support.
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From an official standpoint they claim that MS places no
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contractual restrictions on their choice of software bundles.
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<br><br>
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We can presume that there are veiled, subtle "issues" which
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suggest that any support for alternatives might result in
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unusual delays and backlogs or Dell's order fulfillment and
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possibly delays in the negotiation of new contracts and terms
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for future versions of MS products. It doesn't take much of
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this from a key supplier or customer (and MS probably does
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buy a large number of Dell workstations) to have a chilling
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effect.
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<br><br>
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Unfortunately none of those assertions are likely to be
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revealed in court --- and there's simply too much "plausible
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deniability" for them to have any effect in any event.
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<br><br>
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I'm not sure I can characterize it as a "bummer" --- since
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it is so utterly predictable.
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<br><br>
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What we want to do is to recast Linux as an "opportunity" for
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a "win-win" situation for Dell <strong>and</strong> MS. I think
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we can do this by pointing out that Dell offering "fine print"
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alternatives (No OS included, and Linux) will give the
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<strong>appearance</strong> of greater competition in the marketplace.
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<br><br>
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My plan is to outline this strategy to MS execs (I have a
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mole). Convince them that purely cosmetic notes in the
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marketing materials from Compaq will get the DoJ off their
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back and give them the ammo, in the arena of public opinion,
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to say: "Look! People have choices, and they still pick us
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almost all the time. The free market is working."
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<br><br>
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(This is bound to be more effective for them than that
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pathetic attempt to fabricate a "ground swell of grassroots
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support" --- as was reported by the L.A. Times recently).
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</blockquote>
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<hr width="40%">
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<H3><img src="../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" alt="(?)" width="50" height="28"
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align="left" border="0">Dell & Linux</H3>
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<p><strong>From Khimenko Victor on 10 May 1998</strong></p>
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<p><strong>
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You must know this already but just in case: in
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<a href="http://linuxwww.db.erau.edu/mail_archives/linux-kernel/"
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>linux-kernel</a> list there are quite a few questions like this:
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</strong></p>
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<blockquote><img src="../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" width="50" height="28" alt="(!)"
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align="left" border="0">
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While I do read lkern -- I queue up the digests for
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a week or so at a time and binge on them -- so I hadn't
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noticed these, yet.
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</blockquote>
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<p><strong><img src="../gx/dennis/qbub.gif" width="50" height="28" alt="(?)"
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align="left" border="0">
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<table width="90%" border="1"><tr align="left">
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<td bgcolor="#CCFFFF"><p>~~~
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<br>I installed linux kernel 2.1.89 on a Dell with 2 Pentium Pros.
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But now "<tt>ps</tt>" fails?! Says "No processes available".
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During boot, I get error messages about various demons [sendmail,
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syslog...] trying to start, and this message gets printed for each
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demon. I think the demons are actually running, because [eg] if I
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try to start syslog, it tells me that an instance is running.
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<br><br>
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I looked in <tt>/proc</tt>, and things seem ok. Eg
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"<tt>cat /proc/cpuinfo</tt>" works, and shows both cpus.
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<br><br>
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Before this, I had already successfully installed 2.1.89 on an
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identically configured machine. ps worked there. And I'd also
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installed 2.1.89 on 3 Dells, containing 4 cpus each.
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<br><br>
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Any suggestions?
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<br>~~~
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</p></td>
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</tr></table>
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<p>or this</p>
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<table width="90%" border="1"><tr align="left">
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<td bgcolor="#CCFFFF"><p>~~~
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<br>I tried your io_apic.c fix on an Intel Alder
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4x PPRO system (same motherboard,etc. as DELL PE-6100) and it had
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no effect: boot dies after first line about Uncompressing...
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OK booting...
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<br><br>
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I posted the log of a boot of 2.1.88 on the Alder earlier. Is there
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anything else I can tell you? By the way, 2.1.88 + aic7xxx 5.0.8 patch
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is VERY stable on these systems, and nothing else is right now.
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Also, I compiled 2.196 for a DELL 4200 (2x Pentium II) and it runs
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fine.
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<br>~~~
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</p></td>
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</tr></table>
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<p>or this</p>
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<table width="90%" border="1"><tr align="left">
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<td bgcolor="#CCFFFF"><p>~~~
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<br><dl><dd><em>Hi,
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<br><br>
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there's been some talk recently about patching 2.1.9x to support
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dual PCI busses. Does this mean that the 2.0.x series doesn't
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support it? If so, I might be in trouble... I've just ordered a
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dual PII-333 Dell server which has dual PCI 2.1 busses on it.
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This machine is to become our core mail, news, dns server for my
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network, and so I want to run a relatively stable server (it's
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replacing an aging Sun Sparc 5 which hasn't crashed for over year).
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<br><br>
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Am I going to have to risk the development series on a core server?
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Or will I be lucky....!
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<br><br>
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In the worst case, could I install a 2.0.x series and run it with a
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single bus (cards on the second not recognised) ??</em></dl>
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Dual PCI busses should run fine with 2.0.x kernels as they locate PCI
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devices using the PCI BIOS which of course should handle the dual bus
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case. Since 2.1.9x we try to access the hardware directly in order to
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circumvent PCI BIOS bugs. Anyway, in 2.0.x /proc/pci will show only
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the first bus.
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<br>~~~
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</p></td>
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</tr></table>
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<br><br>
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At least this means that some of Dell customers are using Linux
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<img src="../gx/dennis/smily.gif" alt=":-)" width="20" height="24"
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align="absmiddle">) And not only for jokes (if you'll just try to play
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some games with Linux you'll not going to buy dual Pentium II or 4x
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Pentium Pro server, right?). Thay just not tries to bother Dell with
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their problems since they are sure that Linux is not supported by Dell
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anyway...
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</strong></p>
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<blockquote><img src="../gx/dennis/bbub.gif" width="50" height="28" alt="(!)"
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align="left" border="0">
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That is the point of my message. We are somewhat self-sufficient
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and that is great for our userbase and developers. However,
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as consumers we must communicate our requirements back to
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the vendors --- and we must do so proactively.
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<br><br>
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In other words every
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<a http://www.unix.org/">Unix</a>,
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<a href="http://www.linux.org/">Linux</a>,
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<a href="http://www.freebsd.org/">FreeBSD</a>,
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<a href="http://www.netbsd.org">NetBSD</a>,
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<a href="http://www.openbsd.org/">OpenBSD</a>,
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<a href="http://www.sun.com/software/Products/x86.html"
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>Solaris x86</a>, and
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<a href="http://www.sco.com/">SCO</a> user must tell
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<a href="http://www.dell.com/">Dell</a>, and
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<a href="http://www.compaq.com/">Compaq</a>, and (and
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<a href="http://www.apple.com/">Apple</a> and
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<a href="http://www.umax.com/">Umax</a>) every other vendor that
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refuses to recognize our market:
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</blockquote>
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<p align="center">We demand recognition and support</p>
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<blockquote>
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... and we must back that up with action by shopping with
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vendors that meet this requirement.
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<br><br>
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If we fail to do so, and we scramble about to reverse engineer
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every new wrinkle then we are failing as consumers (no matter
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how we shine as engineers). "They" won't (and shouldn't?) care
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about the "silent minority."
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<br><br>
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The risk and cost of this is that we may not always benefit
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from the same economy of scale that's enjoyed by the mass
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market. We may have to pay a bit more (though not quite as
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bit of a premium as we used to see between PC's and Macs
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nor nearly the discrepancy that still exists between micros
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and workstations).
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</blockquote>
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<!--================================================================-->
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<P> <hr> <P>
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<H5 align="center"><a href="http://www.linuxgazette.com/copying.html"
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>Copyright ©</a> 1998, James T. Dennis <BR>
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Published in <I>Linux Gazette</I> Issue 29 June 1998</H5>
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<P> <hr>
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<!--================================================================-->
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<p align="center"><table width="95%"><tr align="center">
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<td rowspan="4"><A HREF="lg_answer29.html"><IMG
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SRC="../gx/dennis/answernew.gif"
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ALT="[ Answer Guy Index ]"i
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align="left"></A></td>
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<!-- begins -->
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<td><A HREF="tag_versions.html">versions</A></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_lilo.html">lilo</A></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_virtdom.html">virtdom</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_kernel.html">kernel</A></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_winmodem.html">winmodem</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_basicmail.html">basicmail</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_betterbak.html">betterbak</a></td>
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</tr><tr align="center">
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<td><A HREF="tag_shadow.html">shadow</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_dell.html">dell</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_dumbterm.html">dumbterm</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_whylinux.html">whylinux</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_redhat.html">redhat</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_netcard.html">netcard</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_macrovir.html">macrovir</a></td>
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</tr><tr align="center">
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<td><A HREF="tag_newlook.html">newlook</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_tacacs.html">tacacs</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_sendmail.html">sendmail</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_dialdppp.html">dialdppp</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_ppp233.html">ppp233</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_msmail.html">msmail</a></td>
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<td><A HREF="tag_procmail.html">procmail</a></td>
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